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[Music]

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and good evening from philadelphia frank

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here with yet another

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episode of ufo news network sunday

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a lot of news going on in the world of

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ufos

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very interesting stuff as we get closer

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to the release of the

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uh ufo uh uh report

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through the director of national

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intelligence alvaro hines

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and uh we're gonna get to all that but

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the first uh let me bring in

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my co-host chad hannah chan you've had a

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busy weekend i know

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uh covering the fscu conference and now

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this so how are you doing how are you

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holding up

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i'm doing really well the scu conference

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uh i plan on covering a more detailed

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show but they have fantastic guests

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and i also wanted to mention that we

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have a really

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um fantastic uh show today maybe you

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want to cover that a little bit

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yeah that we've got uh we've got there's

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something that we actually agree on chad

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we've got a fabulous guest today

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so why don't you introduce him i would

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love to introduce him he's the head of

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project 1947 jan aldrich he has been

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studying the uap

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topic since the mid-1960s is my

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understanding

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and also wanted to mention that uh

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jan is an icon in the ufo community he's

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a very well-known individual who has

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exhaustively studied the uap topic and

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folks if you do not know him if you're

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novice regarding

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uh the uap topic his last name is

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spelled a-l-d-r-i-c-h

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jan is his first name and look up

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project 1947.com and go to his site

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but jan i wanted to start this off right

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away uh regarding a really fascinating

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topic

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and that is the uh senate intelligence

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committee the folks that are

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delegated to the task of the uap report

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they're assigned that task

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you sent them 27 folders on the uap

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topic and other topics

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related possibly to chinese drones or

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other things and then

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the notes on 53 topics and background

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files on these

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topics a lot of these are previous

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investigations

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now that might sound a little ambiguous

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to some but jan is here to clear up what

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i just said so

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can you please share with us a little

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okay on on previous investigations

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of course we all know blue book and

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it started out with project sign but

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there

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navy was involved in 52-54

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alfred alfred loading

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excuse me i'm saying loading uh

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art lindell who was the head of the navy

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uh photographic uh

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uh analysis division which was

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later transferred to the cia he went to

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the uh

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for the navy

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project of course

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he won't he wouldn't talk about what

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what was said there

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but that's always something i've had on

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my mind

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um and of course there's

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other other projects hidden away

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after blue book uh

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went away a heineke continued working

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for uh for the air force

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um i guess he

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let loose one time saying that he was

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still studying ufos uh other than that

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almost nobody knows about that i i asked

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all his

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uh colleagues and everything everybody

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says oh no i can't say anything about

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that so

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uh the navy

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uh was asked by robert todd

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uh why are you guys this is after blue

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book coast

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why are you guys still investigating

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ufos your fingerprints are all over

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the o and i then the

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office of naval intelligence foyer

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contact

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told him uh the navy

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doesn't care about ufos we don't think

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they're

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of any uh intelligence significance

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we only investigate because the air

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force is interested in

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them so this is 1975.

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um finally uh 1977.

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thomas ross assistant secretary

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of defense for public affairs

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now he would be of an equal rank to what

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mellon was when he was there he but he's

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not

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intelligence he's public affairs um

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bob pratt asked him what are you guys

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still investigating ufos

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and he said well not really he said

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re-record them

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and then they are stored away and he

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said they are in the national

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military command center

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is where they are stored now that's

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1977.

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well after that we don't have much of

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anything except

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we have alonzo saying that uh

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1980s the navy was in charge

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uh our government asked uruguay to uh

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send them re send the us government

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reports from

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we don't know what branch of our

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government was getting here because uh

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uh alonso wasn't uh wasn't forthcoming

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on that

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but so those are just a few

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samples and i let the uh i'll let the

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intelligence committee know about those

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and others um there's electronic

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army um

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laboratory that was studying ufos in the

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and there's other other individual

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uh what you would say

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uh laboratories or or activities

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would sometimes study ufos for a time

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and then

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leave them be so um

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all that i could find i i uh let the

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senate

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uh intelligent subcommittee know in my

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letter

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about them uh we also sent a copy of

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so uh basically just sort of a deep

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background briefing for these guys uh

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to save uh maybe their staffers a lot of

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trouble you've got this stuff already

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together

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and uh just give them a little

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background on uh the

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the long and uh sort of a tumultuous

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history of

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ufos uh what the government's doing and

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uh what the

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guys like yourself uh robert powell uh

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michael swards and putting together this

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uh this book here ufos and government

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uh just uh uh doing a lot of the leg

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work for them

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yeah i hope so i also sent them

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what i call significant events

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um say like the uh the

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minot case in october uh 1968

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um pretty thoroughly investigated and

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then

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tom tolene came came on the scene

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and uh talked to everybody

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all the living crew members of the b-52

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which the case took place in um there

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are radar photographs

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and a trance a transcript of the uh a

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um and this uh the

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air force came up with a rather silly

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answer as to what this was and if

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if it was a plasma ball

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running around in the lower atmosphere

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chasing aircraft

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at over a thousand miles an hour

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that's a major scientific discovery and

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why didn't the air force

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inform the continent committee which was

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in session at the time or

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why didn't they inform aviation safety

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they didn't either but that's their

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that's their answer in there that's one

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of their

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uh answers everybody says there's 701

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uh unknowns i

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i invite everybody to go on to google

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and uh

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google brad sparks

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preliminary a listing

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of on blue book unknowns

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and uh i contributed to this

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brad did most of the work

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we looked at a lot of uh supposed gnomes

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and we're we're not saying that they're

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unknowns but there's

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we're saying that these things need to

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be looked at

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yeah i've looked at some of those blue

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book cases myself the kelly johnson case

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uh lenticular cloud uh

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case balloon uh yeah just uh i wanted to

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talk about uh yeah

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if you look closely at some of those

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cases that uh

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yeah i'm not sure that uh those

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explanations are

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uh necessarily solved you're right about

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that jen okay the question i have for

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jan is uh

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twofold i wanted to know um and i'm

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sorry if i missed this part

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when did you send in that report and

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also

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uh that report including the breadth of

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the 27 folders and the notes on 53

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different topics

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and the the ufo's and government book

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when did you send that in

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and also you know if you send in more

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information later i want to know the

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time

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stamps on both of those dates and then i

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also want to know

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did they request that information no

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they did not request it it's

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uh i'm just volunteering it to them it

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went in yesterday at 11 o'clock

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so uh it was

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a lot more difficult to compile than i

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thought it was going to

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[Laughter]

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i'm not be i'm not finished and there's

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other people that are not finished

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either

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um so uh

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as you know it's no secret

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the kufos files are now in new mexico

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um and if you if you

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uh if you look at dave moller's uh

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website um you can see

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his filing cabinets are down one side

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of the building and the kufos filing

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cabinets are down the other side of the

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building

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and uh one of the reasons uh

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dave's files are so big is because he

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has

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antonio uenas's files

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uh that are uh

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he went ahead and put them together so

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they're there plus another

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a number of other people and i will be

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sending my

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files down there approximately

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in uh september

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and just for the folks who don't know uh

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make sure just to

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uh make sure i'm right about this uh

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kufos is the uh center for ufos studies

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that heinek put together after he

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stopped working for the air force is

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that about right

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yeah that's correct okay okay yeah just

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for folks who aren't aware of that

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all these acronyms all this uh going on

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and

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oh god i should have said that

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well let me let me say what's in these

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files

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it's probably the biggest collection

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of project blue book cases outside the

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government

287
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now here's why that's important because

288
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:29,839
hynek was

289
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:33,120
the air force consultant for almost 20

290
00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:34,560
years

291
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:37,560
and some of these cases he

292
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:38,959
reinvestigated or

293
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:41,760
investigated for the air force and they

294
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:42,079
are

295
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:46,079
annotated with his um

296
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:50,160
what he found so some cases he solved

297
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:53,839
in other cases he found and

298
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:55,760
later on in his career he started

299
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,160
getting much more independent

300
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:00,240
and investigating things on his own

301
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:02,720
without the air force asking

302
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:07,680
and also uh he was much more

303
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:10,800
aggressive in uh

304
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:16,399
looking at air force cases and uh

305
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:19,760
investigating not just one or two

306
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,279
items that they wanted him to

307
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,760
investigate or comment on

308
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:25,680
he would go through the whole thing

309
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:27,120
again

310
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,560
uh besides that there are

311
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,120
what's called the nycap files national

312
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:35,120
investigations committee on aerial

313
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:36,240
phenomena

314
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:39,360
it was a ufo organization

315
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:43,839
run by major kio a

316
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:48,320
uh uh military and scientific people

317
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:49,600
were

318
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:52,800
in part of the

319
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:56,959
organization and those

320
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:00,720
uh files are consolidated with

321
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,120
the kufos files and that makes a huge

322
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:07,199
makes a huge amount of files like i say

323
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:08,639
if you go on dave's site you can see

324
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:11,440
i think he has a picture and you could

325
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:12,160
see the

326
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:15,680
the size of the files there it's just uh

327
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:19,360
huge and i have almost the same amount

328
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:21,519
as dave does so when that gets down

329
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:22,160
there

330
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:25,440
we don't know what we're going to do

331
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:27,120
he'll have to build an addition onto his

332
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:31,279
house in his backyard

333
00:15:38,829 --> 00:15:37,030
okay i did want to bring up something to

334
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:38,839
you jan

335
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,000
um so i wanted to read you a quote from

336
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,320
alejandro uh rojas

337
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,880
and whom you've known for many years and

338
00:15:51,189 --> 00:15:48,160
it's regarding the uap

339
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:51,199
report topic i'm sorry to our listeners

340
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:51,519
my

341
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:54,079
throat is a little froggy i apologize

342
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,040
for that

343
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,519
but if you could just suffer through it

344
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:59,759
here is a quote from him that he just

345
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:00,959
approved

346
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,079
um right before the show he

347
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:06,800
he said i think it is completely fair to

348
00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:07,199
say

349
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,759
they have found no evidence that ufos

350
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,839
have anything to do with aliens

351
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:13,839
and when the ufo community gets upset

352
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:15,519
with that they need to look at

353
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,639
themselves

354
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,320
because they're the ones making these

355
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,399
claims and in addition to that

356
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,560
i would also argue that we as civilian

357
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,240
researchers have also found no

358
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:26,639
evidence the end result is the media

359
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,519
gets it

360
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:29,279
at the beginning of when the new york

361
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:30,800
times story broke

362
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,000
there was a lot of it's not aliens

363
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:37,120
so is it russia or china but it quickly

364
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:39,720
evolved to how can it be russia or china

365
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:42,800
122 incursions over the past couple of

366
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,759
decades

367
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,519
and we've got them on satellite and

368
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:47,839
radar well it's obviously not russia or

369
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,560
china

370
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:50,959
so then what is it and i think that

371
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,600
there is an

372
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:54,000
overall very big silver lining because

373
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,199
it reinforces

374
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:57,040
and buttresses the credibility of the

375
00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:58,560
ufo phenomenon

376
00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:00,800
and in that respect i think it's a huge

377
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,600
great thing

378
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,680
but a lot of the main reason we got here

379
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:05,360
was due to the efforts of

380
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:07,919
ttsa and in particular melon and

381
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:09,199
elizondo

382
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:10,640
i think they are disappointed the

383
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:12,319
military isn't sharing more info

384
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,199
publicly

385
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,679
but i can understand why defense why the

386
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:17,439
defense department would have a problem

387
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:18,319
with that

388
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:19,839
because they deal with sensitive

389
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:22,720
information and they feel this incense

390
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:25,839
info and no one has made enough

391
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:28,400
argument that it is not the next step is

392
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,200
figure out

393
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:31,440
how we look into that and having a

394
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:32,799
mechanism

395
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,720
where the defense department can get

396
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,080
scrubbed data

397
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,679
to a serious uh research organization

398
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,200
it looks like nasa may be getting

399
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,440
involved in that but organizations like

400
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:45,360
the scu can play a part in that

401
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:48,080
do you have a reaction to any of that uh

402
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:49,280
jan

403
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:52,559
well what i told the senate

404
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:55,600
uh select uh committee on intelligence

405
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:56,960
was

406
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:00,559
i i told him we wrote this book

407
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:04,559
ufos and government with the philosophy

408
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:08,160
that we don't know what ufos are

409
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:15,270
but the people

410
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:19,679
that in the government that interacted

411
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:22,720
with the problem

412
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:26,400
they are historical people kyo

413
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:29,440
kio was wasn't a historical person

414
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:32,400
heinek was a historical person you can

415
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:33,600
read their

416
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:37,120
um papers

417
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,400
and you can study the history so that's

418
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:42,080
what we're doing we're not

419
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:45,760
we're not defending uh a position

420
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:50,000
on what ufos are we are only trying to

421
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:53,919
uh tell what we know about history and

422
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,160
the government's reaction

423
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,280
to the phenomenon phenomena

424
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:01,360
who knows one or the other maybe it's

425
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:03,440
more than one thing going on

426
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:06,880
but uh the history is

427
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:15,430
i i don't speculate uh myself and barry

428
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:16,160
greenwood

429
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:20,000
uh uh we don't uh

430
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:23,200
we are just interested in completing the

431
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:23,679
record

432
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:26,320
that that is our mission we've decided

433
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:27,600
that is our mission

434
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:30,720
our mission is not to go to conferences

435
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:33,919
and tell people what we think the

436
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:37,360
the uh the euphenots will do

437
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,070
okay but jan with regards to what

438
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:46,320
alejandro said when he said

439
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:49,200
um 122 incursions over the past couple

440
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:50,080
of decades

441
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:51,760
and we've got them on satellite and

442
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:54,080
radar well it's obviously not russia or

443
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,200
china so then

444
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,240
what is it uh so do you have any

445
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:00,480
response to that

446
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:03,520
i uh do you feel like another country

447
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:03,840
with

448
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:06,159
you know better technology than ours i

449
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,080
know that you are not here to

450
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:10,559
categorize what the topic could be or

451
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:13,440
you know speculate you know

452
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,799
into like get involved in speculative

453
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:19,120
physics or anything like that but what

454
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,880
do you think it could be if it's

455
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:23,039
a hundred and twenty two incursions by

456
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:25,679
satellite and radar

457
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:29,200
well i i i think the the government

458
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,480
uh 122 is not you know

459
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:35,039
that's uh that i don't believe that for

460
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:36,240
a minute

461
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,919
i believe that it's much bigger i

462
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:39,600
believe the government has

463
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:43,520
more and better information than we do

464
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:47,440
lots more lots better um like ratcliffe

465
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:48,400
said

466
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:50,960
the former director of national

467
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,240
intelligence

468
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:55,440
who's a very smart man and the woman

469
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:56,320
that's in

470
00:21:03,750 --> 00:20:59,840
in charge of it today uh her

471
00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:03,760
her resume blows my mind

472
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:07,679
uh avril haynes he's got more

473
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:10,799
more degrees than most women have charms

474
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:16,230
i've worked for a woman like that she

475
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:17,520
had she had

476
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:20,640
multiple degrees uh i i was at

477
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:23,120
mit working at the laboratory for

478
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,559
nuclear science

479
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:26,960
and this woman had degrees in everything

480
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:28,880
music

481
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:32,880
philosophy of uh psychology

482
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:37,360
uh mathematics physics

483
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:41,120
uh she's just that you know such a great

484
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:45,200
uh so well read and so

485
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:48,320
uh educated and

486
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:52,240
besides that she was uh

487
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:56,240
a fantastic

488
00:22:04,070 --> 00:21:59,600
uh woman that could be a model

489
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,080
and i said i go to work every day here

490
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:06,320
and i hear her complaining to the other

491
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,120
women

492
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:09,520
that she can't find any men well there

493
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:16,149
now um i did want to ask you something

494
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:17,919
that's a little different and that is

495
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,400
um do you believe that the u.s

496
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:21,840
government

497
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:25,280
will or has uh in the past

498
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:28,720
for example um or in the future will use

499
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:31,360
some kind of circular or catch-22

500
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,480
related

501
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:35,280
statements or strategies or arguments

502
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,320
regarding the uap

503
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:38,720
issue i want to read a quote to you from

504
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:39,679
shane hurd

505
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:42,880
who is a an assistant director for

506
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:44,000
phoenix mufon

507
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:45,440
regarding what he said about this

508
00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:47,919
possibility he said i think it is

509
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:49,679
possible the us government will use some

510
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,280
circular catch-22

511
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:53,760
related arguments regarding uap issue

512
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,240
however because they are a public entity

513
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,559
still subject to the people the pressure

514
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,159
brought upon them by the public through

515
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,919
the individual efforts of people such as

516
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:02,880
chris mellon

517
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:05,200
lou elizondo and others now will help

518
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:07,120
alleviate that possibility

519
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:08,720
meaning they are officially now on the

520
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:10,960
record for taking the subject seriously

521
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,880
to report on incidents to investigate

522
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:14,400
those incidents and then

523
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:16,240
ultimately provide an accounting for

524
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,600
that for those investigations and then

525
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:21,840
in turn reporting congress which will be

526
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:24,080
done in an unclassified way at least in

527
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,640
part

528
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:27,520
okay so jan do you think that the u.s

529
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,320
government

530
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:31,200
has in the past will currently and also

531
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:32,159
in the future

532
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:35,520
use a circular or catch-22

533
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:38,720
illogic with regards to the uap

534
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,400
topic i i agree with barry greenwood

535
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,080
you can't trust anything the government

536
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:46,880
says on ufos

537
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:57,750
almost uh full existence

538
00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:00,960
uh not into the 80s but from

539
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:04,760
57 to

540
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:09,120
1970 was trying to get information from

541
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:10,400
the government

542
00:24:17,909 --> 00:24:13,520
and exposing

543
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:17,919
incorrect misinformation disinformation

544
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:18,640
from the

545
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:22,880
various um departments

546
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,600
within the government now sometimes they

547
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:27,360
got cooperation

548
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:32,000
um the uh

549
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:36,080
uh the public relations officer

550
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:39,200
uh when keo was uh there

551
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:42,960
uh al chop um and then

552
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:46,080
captain bob white they would slip him

553
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:49,440
stuff um

554
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,480
there was a captain working in

555
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:54,960
air force intelligence and he would give

556
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:55,520
keogh

557
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,679
stuff that was unclassified

558
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,440
theo would not take anything that was

559
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:03,360
classified he didn't want to hear

560
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:05,840
anything that was classified he said he

561
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:08,640
would put his hands over his ears

562
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:12,840
um and uh

563
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:16,159
i a

564
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:19,520
engineer working for republic uh

565
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:22,720
aircraft who had

566
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,600
clearances and were at he was at a lot

567
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:27,600
of the ufo meetings

568
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:32,080
and he actually went to the cia and

569
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:36,559
tried to uh get them interested in ufos

570
00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:40,720
in the early 50s uh he also passed

571
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:44,080
things on the keo and we have

572
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:52,549
also the government tried to block

573
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:00,230
in the in the night about 1960 61

574
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:03,440
when uh many congressmen were interested

575
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:06,080
in having hearings on ufos

576
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:08,840
uh the air force went out of its way to

577
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:10,799
uh um

578
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,080
try to block the hearings so

579
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,640
uh and that's you know that's not oh

580
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:18,400
that's a good story oh where'd you get

581
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:19,440
that that's it that's

582
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:22,880
in project blue book you can read heinek

583
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:23,919
and colonel friend

584
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:27,279
trying to uh do everything they can

585
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:30,880
at the behest of uh uh

586
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:33,440
the air force generals and everything to

587
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,240
keep this out of congress

588
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,640
so you can read it in there and some of

589
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:40,400
the things they did they asked

590
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:43,440
they asked hill and carter the guy

591
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:51,750
a former cia director they they asked

592
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:52,000
him

593
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:55,120
to resign from nycap because he

594
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,200
he being on the board of nycap

595
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:01,120
that was an embarrassment to the air

596
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:03,440
force because he was

597
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:05,520
saying the exact opposite of what the

598
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:06,480
air force

599
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:10,799
was putting out okay i i wanted to

600
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:12,320
when you're done i had a question for

601
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:13,840
you go ahead no no

602
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,440
i'm finished okay so dr irina scott

603
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:19,679
uh who is a scientist and also an author

604
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:21,039
of many uh uap

605
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:24,159
related books regarding the uap report

606
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:25,840
she had a statement to make and i wanted

607
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,000
to get your reaction to it she said

608
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:30,720
having worked at patel memorial in state

609
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:32,320
and with investigators

610
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,000
i know that the 1953 pentacle memoriam

611
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:38,559
memorandum is a valid document showing

612
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:39,760
that the government was

613
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:42,399
lying to the public about the ufo

614
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,200
phenomena

615
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:45,200
its importance is that it uncovered the

616
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:46,320
secret study

617
00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:48,240
project blue book special report number

618
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:51,000
14 and then she put in parentheses

619
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,720
sr-14 which was done while the robertson

620
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,000
panel was refuting

621
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,640
ufo evidence if the government goes back

622
00:28:01,909 --> 00:27:59,760
on this

623
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,919
many will realize how untruthful

624
00:28:06,149 --> 00:28:04,080
untruthful the government really is

625
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:06,159
on something of high importance it was

626
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:08,000
discussed in detail in my book sacred

627
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,960
corridors

628
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,640
secrets behind the real project blue

629
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,720
book wright patterson air force base

630
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:15,679
roswell patel memorial medal dr j allen

631
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:16,559
heineken

632
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:19,520
and ufo cover-up cover-ups what is your

633
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:20,799
reaction to

634
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:23,840
um the uh

635
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:26,559
the aspect of her uh quote where she's

636
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:27,919
talking about how

637
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:30,960
in 1953 the pinnacle pentacle

638
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,080
memorandum is a valid document and then

639
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:35,840
she goes on to state that she feels that

640
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:37,120
the us government was

641
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,320
lying i i i

642
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:42,640
totally agree that the pinnacle

643
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:43,600
memorandum

644
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:47,200
is um

645
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:50,480
uh a valid document i

646
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,960
do not agree that with some of the

647
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:54,080
people that

648
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:57,200
read things into it

649
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:00,399
uh now

650
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:03,760
uh in 1951 the

651
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:06,159
air force re-programmed a hundred

652
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,000
thousand dollars

653
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:10,799
to give to battelle memorial so they

654
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:12,320
could do the first

655
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:15,440
computer study of ufos

656
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:20,159
that was done by uh general garland

657
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:24,840
who was a advocate for ufos and uh

658
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:27,760
um probably the reason that

659
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:31,279
uh uh edward rupelt became

660
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:34,960
project blue book head um

661
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:40,080
now general garland wanted um

662
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:44,320
ufos closely studied

663
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:47,440
not just writing down

664
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:50,080
witness statements after somebody saw a

665
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,590
he wasn't the only one there were people

666
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:57,760
that preceded him and

667
00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:00,880
uh after he was gone there's people that

668
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:02,240
succeeded him

669
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:05,760
that also advocated for

670
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:09,279
um radar photographs

671
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:13,840
uh sensor data um

672
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:18,000
deploying cameras all over the place

673
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,000
um and in some cases these guys were

674
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:24,559
the people that were advocating good ufo

675
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:25,520
studies

676
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,470
uh there were there's a fight going on

677
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:34,080
inside the air force so

678
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:38,399
these these people a lot of times

679
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:40,799
there was starts and stops people would

680
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:42,880
try to get the air force to be

681
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:46,880
more um objective

682
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,360
on ufos and uh

683
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:53,360
a program would get going and then they

684
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:54,720
would get canceled

685
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:58,720
so that that's that now on uh

686
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:02,240
special report uh

687
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:04,159
project blue book special report number

688
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:05,360
14.

689
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:08,559
if you go to my website and

690
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:13,360
uh it's on the shg part of my website

691
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:16,399
there's uh something about robert s

692
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:20,159
allen he is a columnist

693
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:24,320
he wrote about the secret report in 1952

694
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:25,760
which is

695
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,919
the uh project blue book 14

696
00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:32,399
or we think it is we're pretty sure that

697
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:33,519
it is

698
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:36,960
um he said it was more extensive than

699
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:38,240
what was

700
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:42,640
finally released by the air force um

701
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:46,000
uh the air force's the battelle

702
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:49,039
project was called project store

703
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:51,840
and then it went to project white stork

704
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:52,720
and

705
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:56,559
the this is the overall project

706
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:00,640
and ufos were fit in there

707
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,240
uh white stork was about what are the

708
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:06,480
new uh

709
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:14,710
and how can we counter them

710
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:18,960
so i guess ufos were thought to maybe be

711
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:22,000
possibly soviet now when the study was

712
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:23,679
done

713
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:27,600
they found things like um

714
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:30,080
there's a difference between the

715
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:30,880
unknowns

716
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,679
and the gnomes there's a definite

717
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:35,600
difference between them they don't have

718
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:36,399
things that are

719
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,200
the same all over the place so it's

720
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:44,240
nodes and unknowns are different

721
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:47,760
uh they also notice that around

722
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:57,590
there seem to be more cases

723
00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:07,190
they went ahead and kind of tried to

724
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,430
take these conclusions that they made

725
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:10,799
and try to

726
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,640
blur them but

727
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,559
and they did not release the report to

728
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:18,640
the public

729
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:23,360
until congressman moss of the

730
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,080
information committee said they must

731
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:28,720
release it

732
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:31,279
and that was before there was freedom of

733
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:32,159
information

734
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,840
or anything they just put out a press

735
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:37,519
release and said this is what this

736
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:38,000
report

737
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:45,600
it was something else than what they

738
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,830
and chairman moss of the information

739
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:52,399
subcommittee

740
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:55,519
said this is this is for the public you

741
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,230
so

742
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,789
well let's uh let's get to the news now

743
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:06,640
a because

744
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:08,240
big things are happening now and i know

745
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:10,079
you have some opinions on that

746
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,280
uh jan that we did uh see uh

747
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,280
an article in the new york times

748
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:16,879
apparently uh some intel

749
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:19,359
folks have seen at least a rough draft

750
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,399
of this report

751
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:22,480
uh that's going to be coming out and uh

752
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:23,440
they've uh

753
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,440
they've got a few things uh uh

754
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:29,200
we've got some idea what's uh going to

755
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:30,639
happen you had mentioned the uh

756
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,079
uh or alejandro did the 120

757
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:36,879
incidents over two decades the report

758
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,800
determines that a vast majority of more

759
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:40,399
than 120 incidents

760
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:42,320
over the past two decades did not

761
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:44,159
originate from any

762
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,919
american military or other advanced us

763
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:49,440
government technology

764
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,679
senior officials briefed on the

765
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:53,200
intelligence conceded

766
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:55,520
that the very ambiguity of the of the

767
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,480
findings

768
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,680
meant the government could not

769
00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:59,760
definitely rule out uh

770
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:02,320
theories that the phenomenon observed by

771
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:03,440
military pilots

772
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:06,800
might be alien spacecraft many of the

773
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:07,760
more than

774
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,320
120 incidents examined in the reporter

775
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,720
from navy personnel officials said

776
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,960
the report also examined incidents

777
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:16,800
involving foreign militaries

778
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:19,119
over the last two decades intelligence

779
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:20,079
officials believe

780
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:22,400
at least some of the aerial phenomena

781
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:25,119
could have been experimental technology

782
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:28,640
from a rival power most likely russia or

783
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,800
china seems like there's a little bit of

784
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,560
a discrepancy there i'm sure

785
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,560
the final report will clear that up some

786
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,480
difference of opinion along the way

787
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:38,560
one senior official briefed on the

788
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:39,680
intelligence said

789
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,400
without hesitation that u.s officials

790
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:44,800
knew it was not american technology

791
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,320
he said there was worry among

792
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:48,480
intelligence and military officials

793
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,200
that uh china or russia could be

794
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,000
experimenting with hypersonic technology

795
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,320
now uh a couple things uh because you

796
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:58,160
know so much about history jan

797
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:01,440
all right uh okay uh uh today uh maybe

798
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,440
even up until the last 20 years

799
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:05,280
uh we've got those kind of issues but

800
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:06,880
we've got a pretty good idea

801
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:09,200
what everybody had back in the 40s back

802
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,119
in the 50s back in the 60s

803
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:13,520
and they were still reporting these uh

804
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,119
hypersonic ufos

805
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:17,839
uh making uh right angle turns uh

806
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,839
hovering and then instant acceleration

807
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:20,880
that kind of thing

808
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,880
uh nobody had that kind of gear back

809
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,880
then yet we're still getting those uh

810
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:26,880
those kind of reports that's uh uh

811
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,079
that's where some of the real

812
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:30,480
value of uh this kind of the kind of

813
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:34,240
historical research that you do comes in

814
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:37,280
yeah i would say so um let me just say

815
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:39,680
this about the new york times article

816
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:41,520
everybody's saying well that's you know

817
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:43,280
they got a scoop

818
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:46,240
yeah well if you uh go go walk your dog

819
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:47,680
too you have a scoop poo

820
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:51,040
and what do you get okay so

821
00:37:02,390 --> 00:36:59,510
miss avril haynes there

822
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:02,400
she is she briefs the president every

823
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:03,440
day

824
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:05,680
or one of her deputies briefs the

825
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:07,760
president every day

826
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:10,160
she's like the number two person there

827
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:12,240
or maybe she's number five

828
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:14,640
depending on how they they run up this

829
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:17,200
thing in the military but she is

830
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:22,240
she's the one that sees him all the time

831
00:37:25,589 --> 00:37:25,200
and uh if you uh i know you sent me a

832
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:25,599
thing

833
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:29,839
saying that the uh secretary of defense

834
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:31,760
austin was

835
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:35,839
briefed on the contents of the report

836
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:36,640
and i

837
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,440
think i wrote back to you yeah he wants

838
00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:40,800
to know what his

839
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:44,400
chowderheads are telling the dnr

840
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:47,839
that's right that's right if she does

841
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,400
if she doesn't get good information she

842
00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:52,720
can rip off his face and he won't know

843
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:54,079
it for two weeks

844
00:38:02,870 --> 00:37:57,520
exactly exactly yes he has

845
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:02,880
the ear of the president but she is also

846
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:06,240
in a position to have some of the best

847
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:06,720
people

848
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:09,839
in the world now the cia has not always

849
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:11,200
been in that position

850
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:14,880
in 1952 the head of the

851
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:18,079
uh scientific intelligence within the

852
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,119
cia

853
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,680
said what do i have i have a bunch of

854
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:23,760
square pegs in round holes

855
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:26,640
they're people that the services don't

856
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:27,440
want

857
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:32,320
because they're uh um they can't do uh

858
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:34,720
the work that the services want them to

859
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:37,440
do so they sent them over here to my

860
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:41,680
um to scientific intelligence

861
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,839
so uh but they don't have that today she

862
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,079
has

863
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:48,640
some of the best people going and

864
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:51,200
they're going to see through

865
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:55,359
some of this stuff that uh

866
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:58,560
is is going on now how much

867
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:02,160
how much they let the public know

868
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:05,520
but uh i'm sure that's why

869
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:07,680
austin got a briefing he wanted to know

870
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,760
what they're telling her

871
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:11,520
because they better tell her the truth

872
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,240
because i think she's

873
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:17,520
she's had enough experience he's

874
00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:20,560
the number two person at the cia

875
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:22,480
she has enough experience to know when

876
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:23,760
she's being

877
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:27,040
uh hornswood so well i think it's

878
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,119
important to let the folks know that

879
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:31,440
the director of national intelligence is

880
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:32,800
a relatively

881
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,839
recent uh uh uh office

882
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:37,200
you know it didn't exist before

883
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:39,760
september 11th it was because of

884
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:42,160
that catastrophe from an intel

885
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:42,960
standpoint

886
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:45,839
that they wanted somebody over the cia

887
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:46,640
over the

888
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:49,440
uh uh defense intelligence agency over

889
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:50,160
these uh

890
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:52,320
the fbi as well over these different

891
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:53,520
agencies to sort of

892
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:56,800
and get everything coordinated and uh

893
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,680
just keep people from uh sort of

894
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:01,359
sequestering their information and

895
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,800
sharing information better

896
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,480
that's kind of the purpose of the entire

897
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:05,920
office

898
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:07,520
yeah that well that that's kind of what

899
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:11,119
i was saying the other thing is

900
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:15,440
i i can prove like the cia

901
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:18,480
and the nsa after they were

902
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,160
formed the cia got five copies of

903
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:24,720
every intelligence report that went

904
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:26,720
through the pentagon

905
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,680
they got five copies of every ufo

906
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,359
intelligence report that went through

907
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:34,079
the pentagon

908
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:38,800
they got the nsa got three copies

909
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:41,599
and then you see what the the foia thing

910
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:42,079
is

911
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:45,440
they put out 900 pages are you kidding

912
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:50,710
do you think i'm stupid i can read this

913
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:53,520
as you guys get five copies

914
00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:56,319
and you can't find them it's the central

915
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:57,839
intelligence agency

916
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:01,359
it's supposed to be able to retrieve

917
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:08,230
and they can't well they they do have

918
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,960
some i

919
00:41:12,309 --> 00:41:10,079
do know they have some legal

920
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:12,319
restrictions as far as what they gather

921
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:14,319
uh within the state so they they do have

922
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,240
that so that's i guess the fbi's job

923
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,200
every everything that project blue brook

924
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:23,119
got in five copies

925
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,359
plus other stuff plus they got the navy

926
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:29,920
the navy sent them three copies of every

927
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:31,040
ufo

928
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:34,560
that i can that i can look at

929
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,040
the air force i've got a lot more

930
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:39,200
information on the air force

931
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,440
because every uh

932
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,359
intelligence report that goes through ed

933
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:47,440
for air force headquarters

934
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:50,960
is cataloged and has signed a special

935
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,230
and on the index cards that they used to

936
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,319
be cataloged on now they do it with

937
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:00,720
computers

938
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:04,560
it indicates five copies for the cia

939
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:07,440
three copies for the nsa one copy for

940
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:08,319
the navy

941
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:12,079
one copy for the army uh

942
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:15,280
maybe one copy for australia one copy

943
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:16,400
for new zealand

944
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:19,359
one copy for canada one copy for great

945
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:28,069
depending on what the what the uh

946
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:31,109
the uh information that they want to let

947
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:31,599
the

948
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:34,880
foreigners have so

949
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:38,240
uh they're saying that there they have

950
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,270
baffle gas they got a lot more than that

951
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:46,880
is what you're saying

952
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:50,640
right um okay jan i wanted to interject

953
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:51,440
and ask you

954
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,480
about a quote i got from um

955
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:56,160
a chief investigator who's also an

956
00:43:02,790 --> 00:42:59,440
assistant director of regarding um

957
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:02,800
los angeles mufon and

958
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:06,319
he said those are waiting those who

959
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,640
are waiting for official disclosure on

960
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:10,480
the ufo phenomenon

961
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:13,280
are going to be in for disappointment as

962
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:13,680
ever

963
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:17,920
continue their long history of

964
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,800
obfuscation on this on the subject

965
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:22,480
everything i've heard so far has been

966
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,280
more of

967
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,920
the same they speak of these objects

968
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:28,000
breaking newton's laws over military

969
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:30,079
installations and ships as though

970
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,079
this were a new thing we know that the

971
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,319
pentagon has seen the phenomenon as a

972
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:36,160
national security risk

973
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:39,280
since at least the 1940s yet they're

974
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,480
playing stupid

975
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:42,560
acting like anomalous objects playing

976
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:44,560
cat and mouse with our top gun fighter

977
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,920
jets is something new

978
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:47,680
that the pentagon is suddenly has an

979
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:49,760
interest i expect

980
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:52,319
zero transparency here they will claim

981
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:52,960
to have no

982
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:56,160
idea as to who are flying these objects

983
00:43:59,829 --> 00:43:57,920
they'll say that the phenomenon they're

984
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:59,839
seeing has nothing to do with ufos

985
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:01,760
reported historically

986
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,440
that there's some how a difference

987
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:05,200
between the tic tac and when the

988
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,200
military send jets up to intercept the

989
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,520
lubbock lights back in 1951.

990
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:12,319
what's your reaction to that well i i

991
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:13,040
would say that

992
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:16,400
right here okay a rack cliff was the

993
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:16,960
former

994
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,040
dni now if you if you

995
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:24,640
uh you can listen to him and trey gowdy

996
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:27,680
uh talking about their time in the

997
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:28,960
congress

998
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:32,560
and gowdy wanted to be on uh

999
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:36,160
the intelligence committee and uh uh

1000
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,720
radcliffe wanted to be on there and this

1001
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:40,640
is kind of a funny story

1002
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:44,480
uh radcliffe went to the uh uh

1003
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,680
the spirit of the house and said i want

1004
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,119
to be on the intelligence committee and

1005
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:51,119
here's my resume

1006
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:54,319
but if you decide on gowdy he

1007
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:57,440
he he knows things that i don't know and

1008
00:45:02,870 --> 00:44:59,200
i know things he don't know

1009
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:02,880
and he didn't uh radcliffe did not know

1010
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:05,599
that gowdy did the same thing about a

1011
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:08,079
week before he said i want to be on the

1012
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:10,160
intelligence committee that's one of my

1013
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:11,119
goals

1014
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:14,079
but if you if you think that radcliff is

1015
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:14,960
better

1016
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:18,400
i i defer to him so

1017
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:21,680
um but radcliffe has gone ahead

1018
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:25,839
and pulled the rug out from dod

1019
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:29,119
he told them he told the press

1020
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:31,280
oh yeah we've been picking these up with

1021
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:32,640
satellites

1022
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,119
now they wouldn't admit that i have a

1023
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:37,359
thing from the navy that greenwood got

1024
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:39,200
in a foyer

1025
00:45:44,829 --> 00:45:41,359
they're saying they picked up stuff with

1026
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,069
um and anybody that can get a hold of

1027
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:50,400
jerry clark's

1028
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:53,920
uh third uh edition of his

1029
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:57,599
ufo encyclopedia get your library to buy

1030
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:58,480
it if

1031
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:00,079
if you can't afford it because it's

1032
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:01,920
rather expensive

1033
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:04,480
but get your library and read brad

1034
00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:06,480
sparks's

1035
00:46:15,750 --> 00:46:11,680
um essay on norad

1036
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:15,760
it is fascinating and

1037
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:23,190
and it's uh he he went through the

1038
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:24,640
process

1039
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:27,520
where how they decide things are ufos

1040
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:28,240
with the

1041
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:34,880
um the main thing is that radcliff has

1042
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:38,400
pulled the rug out from dod all that

1043
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:41,599
all that stuff is he says we got more

1044
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,589
and uh we've got satellite detection

1045
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,839
okay i just have to correct myself thank

1046
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:53,760
you for that jim that was wonderful

1047
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:56,960
um regarding uh the position and title

1048
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:58,800
that earl grey holds

1049
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:00,960
for mufon he is assistant state director

1050
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,200
of southern california he's also chief

1051
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:05,680
field investigator for many years for

1052
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,400
mufon

1053
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:08,400
and he's also a member of the star team

1054
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,319
um so uh

1055
00:47:13,630 --> 00:47:12,160
jan i wanted to ask you a little bit

1056
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:13,640
about the topic of

1057
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:16,480
classification or classifying things

1058
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:17,119
regarding

1059
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:20,960
um data raw data that the us government

1060
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:23,280
specialists have when it goes across

1061
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:25,280
their desks

1062
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:28,160
let's just say you're an officer for the

1063
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:29,440
us government whatever

1064
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:32,160
your title is and you are responsible

1065
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,280
for deciding

1066
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:35,520
how to classify a topic that's on your

1067
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:36,480
desk

1068
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:39,440
um is it true or not true from your

1069
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:40,720
perspective

1070
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:43,119
that it is possible that there is an

1071
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:45,680
abusive overclassification

1072
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:48,160
of topics in a certain manner i'll give

1073
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:49,520
an example

1074
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,960
i am always in the cia archives studying

1075
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:54,240
whatever i can

1076
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:57,359
regarding the uap topic and i came

1077
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:58,559
across

1078
00:48:01,990 --> 00:48:00,559
multiple documents indicating that the

1079
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:02,000
us government believes

1080
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,440
that there is a rampant misuse of the

1081
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:07,599
top secret classification regarding

1082
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,559
their files

1083
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:11,200
that it's being overused do you believe

1084
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:12,240
that's true

1085
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:14,480
and how hard is it to decide how to

1086
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:15,760
classify something

1087
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:18,839
when it's on a us government agent's

1088
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:21,200
desk the uh

1089
00:48:29,950 --> 00:48:28,470
and and eisenhower eliminated one whole

1090
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:29,960
category of

1091
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:32,240
classification because he thought it was

1092
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:33,599
over classified

1093
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,470
restricted data excuse me that

1094
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:42,160
restricted data is

1095
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,520
nuclear but the classification

1096
00:48:49,750 --> 00:48:47,200
restricted

1097
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:49,760
eisenhower eliminated that because he

1098
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:51,200
thought everything was

1099
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,960
over classified so it's a problem that

1100
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:56,240
constantly

1101
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:01,520
plagues the government

1102
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,520
and the president's the one that decides

1103
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:05,359
how things work and

1104
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:08,240
it's hard for him to keep controlling us

1105
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:08,800
so

1106
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,720
brings up another topic i apologize for

1107
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:20,880
asking this now but i i do want to know

1108
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:23,280
your reaction to this and that is

1109
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:26,160
let's just pretend you are responsible

1110
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:26,880
for bringing

1111
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:29,440
topics to the president of the united

1112
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:30,559
states

1113
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,240
and uh my question to you is

1114
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:37,200
as an individual who who in a fictional

1115
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:39,520
situation were to bring

1116
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:41,040
topics to the president of the united

1117
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,880
states would you be bringing him uap

1118
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,079
related topics

1119
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:46,720
or do the alphabet agencies want

1120
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:49,040
deniability on the presence part so he

1121
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,720
he or she doesn't have to admit they

1122
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:53,280
know anything about the topic at all

1123
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:57,680
well um obviously obama knows something

1124
00:50:13,030 --> 00:49:58,000
about

1125
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:13,040
a a historical

1126
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:15,839
thing everybody that saw the movie

1127
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:17,359
patent

1128
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:26,069
his air force general was named

1129
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:29,599
wylan and patton said

1130
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,559
this is the best damn general in the air

1131
00:50:38,829 --> 00:50:33,920
force

1132
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:41,990
um uh they had uh

1133
00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:45,760
uh ufos that were seen and uh

1134
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:49,359
in january and somebody leaked it

1135
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:52,960
to the press in february and

1136
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:57,119
uh the pentagon went completely

1137
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:00,400
uh uh gazumba

1138
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:04,160
on it and uh um

1139
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:06,640
this this is an error in our book as a

1140
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,670
and so uh they did come up with an

1141
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,280
explanation which they sent

1142
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:17,440
to congress because the armed services

1143
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:19,760
subcommittee

1144
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:23,119
or the committee chair

1145
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:26,160
richard russell demanded to know what

1146
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:27,040
was going on

1147
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:30,160
in korea and they gave him a half-assed

1148
00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:31,680
answer

1149
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:38,790
a general wylan in uh

1150
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:41,839
in japan and he's directing the korean

1151
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:43,280
war the air war

1152
00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:46,319
and he said uh uh

1153
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:49,119
i don't believe the i don't believe that

1154
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,079
answer

1155
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:52,319
i think that's wrong and he said

1156
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:54,000
something else that shouldn't have been

1157
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:55,599
said at the time either

1158
00:52:01,990 --> 00:51:59,760
he said oh the chinese have wonderful

1159
00:52:03,750 --> 00:52:02,000
fighter pilots they're shooting down our

1160
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:03,760
planes all over the place

1161
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:06,480
they're just wonderful what he was

1162
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:07,440
saying was

1163
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:11,040
the russians have a special squadron

1164
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:14,559
that were shooting down our planes

1165
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,280
until we got better planes and more

1166
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:19,119
trained pilots

1167
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:21,520
uh that was a problem and he he

1168
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:23,680
definitely was not supposed to say

1169
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:26,880
anything like that but he didn't care

1170
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:32,160
because he was just like pat

1171
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:35,920
so uh that okay yes yeah that's a

1172
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:38,720
you know things come out because of that

1173
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:39,440
kind of a

1174
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:42,160
thing i understand now i wanted to ask

1175
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:43,359
you a question

1176
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:45,200
um that we talked maybe just a little

1177
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:46,400
bit about before

1178
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:50,000
not that long ago and i i framed it in

1179
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:51,119
this manner

1180
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:53,200
and you can go ahead and answer however

1181
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:54,559
you desire

1182
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:57,200
you know if you want to bring in another

1183
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:59,200
topic to it it's up to you but

1184
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:00,800
what i had asked you was the u.s

1185
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:02,960
government is charged with the safety of

1186
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:04,480
its military

1187
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:06,079
do you believe the us government would

1188
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,920
prefer to be on the side of saving a

1189
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,280
buck

1190
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:11,359
or protecting the u.s military regarding

1191
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:12,880
the uap topic

1192
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:15,440
here's an example the us military has

1193
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,319
raw data

1194
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:18,559
indicating swarms of ufo activity are

1195
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:20,480
occurring in the united states

1196
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,400
would the us government spend money to

1197
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:24,079
outfit their own military to protect

1198
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,480
them

1199
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:26,800
better while they investigate these

1200
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:28,720
unknown aerial objects

1201
00:53:32,710 --> 00:53:31,040
or rely on their own military's training

1202
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:32,720
instead

1203
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:34,240
and not spend more money on the

1204
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:37,359
equipment they have already

1205
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:39,520
would they be more likely to lean on the

1206
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:41,119
training of their military or would they

1207
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:43,359
spend extra money to outfit them with

1208
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:44,800
better equipment to try and learn more

1209
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:46,640
about the uap topic

1210
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:48,640
which and do you think they're worried

1211
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:49,760
about the safety of their

1212
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:53,119
of their personnel also regarding the

1213
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:53,760
uap

1214
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:56,880
topic i think they are but you know

1215
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:00,000
the military's a hazardous place yeah

1216
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:03,520
i was in it for 25 years um they

1217
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,079
they told at one time about 56 or so

1218
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:10,480
they told pilots to ram their planes

1219
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:18,069
so uh yeah they um

1220
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:19,920
i think what the problem with the

1221
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:22,400
military is is something that goes back

1222
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:23,040
to

1223
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:26,880
kyo kyo said there's a silence group

1224
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:31,520
and there's people like dewey fornay

1225
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:34,960
and uh al chop and and people like that

1226
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:36,160
that want

1227
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:38,000
the information to come out to the

1228
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:39,520
public

1229
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:41,839
and so there's a difference of opinion

1230
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:43,200
within the uh

1231
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:46,400
in the military and

1232
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:49,040
the people that have the upper hand are

1233
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:50,799
what keo would call

1234
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:53,920
the silence group and i

1235
00:55:01,670 --> 00:55:01,430
they have uh every once in a while come

1236
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:01,680
up

1237
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:03,760
with a thing there was a some kind of

1238
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:06,160
directive you see a ufo over the

1239
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:09,359
same over the pacific tried to shoot it

1240
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:10,480
down

1241
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:12,160
um and that got to the press and

1242
00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:14,640
immediately the navy said no no no no no

1243
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:15,119
no

1244
00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:20,400
that um uh

1245
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:23,760
and of course back in uh 1952 when the

1246
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:24,559
washington

1247
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:27,599
thing was going on that's what they were

1248
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:29,119
saying

1249
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,799
um just just curious go ahead go ahead

1250
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:34,480
please go ahead we're going to shoot

1251
00:55:42,789 --> 00:55:41,589
um of course there's uh there's a

1252
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:42,799
difference of opinion

1253
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,839
and of course we can't spend an infinite

1254
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:47,520
amount of money

1255
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:51,040
they they uh but we've

1256
00:55:55,349 --> 00:55:53,680
been willing to pay enough money to get

1257
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:55,359
the best military

1258
00:56:02,390 --> 00:55:59,200
in the world but what it would

1259
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:02,400
fare against somebody that's a couple of

1260
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:05,280
centuries ahead of us

1261
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:07,280
you know it's pretty hopeless as a

1262
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:08,799
matter of fact

1263
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:10,960
well we are we are seeing this uh

1264
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:12,960
seeming difference between the the navy

1265
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:13,680
which is

1266
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:16,079
a little been pretty open about this

1267
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:17,520
relatively speaking

1268
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:20,480
as as compared to the air force which

1269
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,079
doesn't seem to have contributed

1270
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,640
at least based on this leak to the times

1271
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:26,079
doesn't seem like the air force has

1272
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,520
contributed all that much

1273
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,760
but it's uh much more about the navy the

1274
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:31,040
navy's doing it so

1275
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:32,720
it seems like there's a difference there

1276
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:34,880
between the two branches

1277
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:38,400
yeah well uh the navy was feeding keough

1278
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:42,480
stuff because he knew

1279
00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:45,040
he had been to the naval academy he knew

1280
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:47,599
all these people

1281
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:50,720
so uh and they were all admirals at that

1282
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,960
you know by that he had been out he

1283
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:54,400
retired because he was

1284
00:57:02,870 --> 00:56:58,720
injured in guam but uh

1285
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:02,880
uh uh the the uh

1286
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:06,960
most of the admirals uh knew him

1287
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:09,680
from the academy days so he could go

1288
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:11,200
into their offices

1289
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:14,960
and talk to them and uh

1290
00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:17,359
he got things from the navy that he

1291
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:18,000
probably

1292
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:21,520
shouldn't have um

1293
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:26,400
so uh it's interesting too uh

1294
00:57:36,309 --> 00:57:34,390
the navy doesn't talk about things that

1295
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:36,319
happen at sea

1296
00:57:43,109 --> 00:57:39,520
so uh um if you look at my

1297
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:43,119
uh navy catalog there's a lot of places

1298
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:44,000
there where they

1299
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:46,480
where the commander or the ship says

1300
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:47,599
this didn't happen

1301
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:50,400
don't anybody say anything about this i

1302
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:51,520
want to be

1303
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:54,640
one day okay uh

1304
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:56,720
jan i wanted to add that's very funny by

1305
00:58:02,950 --> 00:57:58,960
the way um i wanted to ask you

1306
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:02,960
um is the pentagon's uap report

1307
00:58:08,789 --> 00:58:06,480
just a pr exercise to satiate

1308
00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:08,799
uh an unavoidable demand on the uap

1309
00:58:12,750 --> 00:58:10,160
topic

1310
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,760
i think uh well i think if you look at

1311
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:14,559
stanford's

1312
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:17,839
um press conference that's what it was

1313
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:21,359
there um i think this will be the same

1314
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:21,839
thing

1315
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:24,880
except i am looking at the caliber of

1316
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:26,640
people that are going to be

1317
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:29,760
having input here and i'm

1318
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:33,040
i'm impressed and like i said ratcliffe

1319
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:34,799
got out in front of this

1320
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:39,119
now he's no longer the dni

1321
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:43,359
but he said things that uh

1322
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:46,559
uh uh to me it's amazing he said yeah oh

1323
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:46,880
we

1324
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:50,160
picked this up with satellites

1325
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:53,359
that's that's to me amazing now does

1326
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:54,240
that

1327
00:59:03,990 --> 00:58:59,520
jan

1328
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,000
sure it could yeah well the nsa don't

1329
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:06,480
they're they're not known for being very

1330
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:07,040
uh

1331
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,079
it's the least possible

1332
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,799
i think everybody comes under the dni

1333
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:18,240
one way or another

1334
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:21,599
as far as nsa and

1335
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:24,000
a couple of these agencies that they say

1336
00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:25,680
they don't even exist today

1337
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:28,960
like the uh uh national

1338
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:32,000
reconnaissance office yeah well there

1339
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:34,559
yeah there but there's one that's uh the

1340
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:37,119
ocean reconnaissance office

1341
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:39,359
and please note that you know we've got

1342
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:42,880
a radar net around the united states

1343
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:45,680
we've got an anti-submarine net around

1344
00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:55,190
and they pick up things

1345
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:57,510
okay uh anything else or yeah because

1346
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,559
i'd like to uh

1347
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:01,200
i'd like to start talking about uh bill

1348
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,359
nelson uh the administrator at nasa i'd

1349
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:04,799
like to start talking about

1350
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:06,240
his comments a little bit because i

1351
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:07,440
think i thought they were pretty

1352
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:09,119
interesting too

1353
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:10,880
yeah that's that that is really

1354
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:12,960
interesting that's

1355
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,960
oh wow yeah uh because uh

1356
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:18,960
uh nelson isn't that isn't really a

1357
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:21,280
typical nasa administrator a lot of

1358
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:22,160
those guys will

1359
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:24,880
uh take over at nasa they've uh worked

1360
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,200
uh

1361
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:27,040
sort of worked their way up some of them

1362
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:28,960
are former astronauts that have gotten

1363
01:00:32,549 --> 01:00:30,400
into administration

1364
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:32,559
uh one name that if you look at the

1365
01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:34,160
administrators in the past you might

1366
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,000
recognize as james webb

1367
01:00:39,910 --> 01:00:38,400
who's had the uh the uh the space

1368
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:39,920
telescope named after him

1369
01:00:43,589 --> 01:00:42,079
but for the most part they don't uh

1370
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:43,599
they're not former senators they're not

1371
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:44,799
former congressmen

1372
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:47,280
uh nelson's over there now he was uh

1373
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,160
just put in there

1374
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:50,319
by joe biden since uh biden became

1375
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:51,200
president

1376
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:53,680
and uh he had three terms in the senate

1377
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:54,559
and he was a

1378
01:00:58,069 --> 01:00:57,280
plugged in guy to say the least on

1379
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:58,079
issues like

1380
01:01:01,510 --> 01:01:00,160
intelligence like the military like

1381
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,520
science in fact

1382
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:03,440
he actually went into space himself he

1383
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:05,680
was a a crew member on one of the space

1384
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:06,559
shuttle missions

1385
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:08,720
while he was in the senate so a very

1386
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:10,960
plugged in guy and he had some very

1387
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,440
interesting comments about the ufos

1388
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:15,359
uh earlier this week so let's go to

1389
01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:18,079
those right now americans have long

1390
01:01:23,589 --> 01:01:20,799
been fascinated by ufos and the public

1391
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:23,599
has seen the videos

1392
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,640
do you think that we have been contacted

1393
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:29,040
by extraterrestrials

1394
01:01:32,069 --> 01:01:31,599
well i have talked to those navy pilots

1395
01:01:34,789 --> 01:01:32,079
and

1396
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:34,799
they are sure that they saw something

1397
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:35,520
real

1398
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:37,520
and of course we've seen their video

1399
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:39,599
from their jets

1400
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:43,520
what is it we don't know

1401
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:46,559
so now that i'm here at nasa i've turned

1402
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:48,079
to our scientist

1403
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:51,359
and i've said would you

1404
01:01:54,870 --> 01:01:53,359
looking at it from a scientific

1405
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:54,880
standpoint

1406
01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:57,520
see if you can determine so that we can

1407
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:00,000
have a better idea

1408
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:02,799
we don't know if it's extraterrestrial

1409
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:03,760
we don't know

1410
01:02:11,109 --> 01:02:07,520
an

1411
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:11,119
optical phenomenon we don't think so

1412
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:13,039
because of the characteristics that

1413
01:02:19,109 --> 01:02:13,520
those

1414
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:19,119
navy jet pilots described as they saw it

1415
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:21,599
going against move around the wind's 120

1416
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:22,160
west

1417
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:26,240
the bottom line is we want to know

1418
01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:28,079
and that's what we're trying to do what

1419
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:29,520
do you think it is i mean what's your

1420
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:30,720
personal take on it

1421
01:02:36,069 --> 01:02:33,760
i don't have an idea that's why i turned

1422
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:36,079
to our scientists

1423
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,079
and what have they said to you well

1424
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:40,559
they're looking into it

1425
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:42,240
would you like me to call you when i get

1426
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:44,079
an answer please because i want to know

1427
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:45,680
just as much as you want to know just as

1428
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,359
much as the public wants to know

1429
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:49,839
and you know the pentagon they will soon

1430
01:02:53,589 --> 01:02:50,480
release

1431
01:02:55,829 --> 01:02:53,599
their report on ufos but when you know

1432
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:55,839
when people think of mysterious things

1433
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:56,880
flying in the sky

1434
01:03:01,829 --> 01:03:00,000
and aliens they think of nasa so what

1435
01:03:03,029 --> 01:03:01,839
have you guys been briefed about in

1436
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:03,039
terms of this report

1437
01:03:07,349 --> 01:03:06,000
have you been involved in any way i was

1438
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:07,359
actually briefed on this

1439
01:03:13,109 --> 01:03:09,920
a couple of years ago in my capacity on

1440
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:13,119
the senate armed services committee

1441
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:15,680
nasa appropriately is going to look at

1442
01:03:18,549 --> 01:03:17,520
it yeah i'm still playing the video jan

1443
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:18,559
sorry about that

1444
01:03:21,750 --> 01:03:20,319
and that's what we're doing but do you

1445
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:21,760
think the agency should be

1446
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:25,200
more involved at this point well we are

1447
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:27,280
and i've started it i've been here a

1448
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:29,599
month and i've started it

1449
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:31,039
and are you guys working with the

1450
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:32,880
pentagon then on that report

1451
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:36,480
we are not directly uh working with them

1452
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,880
but i can guarantee you if we find

1453
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:40,880
something

1454
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:44,880
the pentagon will want to know

1455
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:47,839
and so there are nelson's comments and

1456
01:03:51,990 --> 01:03:48,880
again that they are

1457
01:03:52,470 --> 01:03:52,000
very interesting indeed uh uh jan i'm uh

1458
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:52,480
look

1459
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:55,520
to myself you know

1460
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:58,960
is it possible that uh nelson is

1461
01:04:01,510 --> 01:03:59,520
offering

1462
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:01,520
the pentagon sort of an outlet pass a

1463
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,440
way of getting this potato hot potato

1464
01:04:08,230 --> 01:04:05,760
off their plate

1465
01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:08,240
uh i hadn't thought of that but that's a

1466
01:04:12,069 --> 01:04:09,359
possibility

1467
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:12,079
i think what what we can say about this

1468
01:04:17,829 --> 01:04:14,319
is this is what we wanted all

1469
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:17,839
all along somebody outside the military

1470
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:21,039
investigating ufos and i think that's

1471
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:22,559
what we wanted

1472
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:24,319
and now that we've got it nobody's

1473
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,039
excited i'm excited yeah i'm excited too

1474
01:04:31,109 --> 01:04:29,440
i think it's pretty interesting and uh

1475
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:31,119
realistically

1476
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,400
you know the the best uh sensor uh

1477
01:04:38,309 --> 01:04:36,960
data gathering uh instruments are in the

1478
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:38,319
hands of the military

1479
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:41,359
but let's say let's assume that uh some

1480
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:43,440
of these ufos are e.t

1481
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:46,000
they're like they're the the worst

1482
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:48,079
entity to be handling this

1483
01:04:52,230 --> 01:04:50,720
really so we're we're in this weird spot

1484
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:52,240
they've got the best data but they're

1485
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:53,280
really uh

1486
01:04:57,029 --> 01:04:54,960
the worst entity to be dealing with the

1487
01:04:59,309 --> 01:04:57,039
issue

1488
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:59,319
we've always wanted a scientific

1489
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:00,720
organization

1490
01:05:06,829 --> 01:05:02,880
to look at this well the content

1491
01:05:12,870 --> 01:05:09,910
but this is what i think this is

1492
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:12,880
what everybody wants is somebody uh

1493
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:15,280
independent of the military to look at

1494
01:05:19,109 --> 01:05:15,680
it

1495
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:19,119
now um i'm

1496
01:05:23,029 --> 01:05:22,640
i'm just uh fascinated by this and i

1497
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:23,039
think

1498
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:27,440
uh uh we need to tell

1499
01:05:31,589 --> 01:05:30,079
uh tell nelson that there's a giant

1500
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:31,599
reservoir

1501
01:05:38,069 --> 01:05:34,799
of ufo reports outside

1502
01:05:39,349 --> 01:05:38,079
of the military and like i said the

1503
01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:39,359
kufos

1504
01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:43,359
stuff is um

1505
01:05:49,270 --> 01:05:46,799
dr willie smith and um

1506
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:49,280
half a dozen other scientists uh

1507
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:56,470
massive data and then nycap stuff

1508
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:00,240
some of this fascinating um i remember

1509
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:04,559
nycap saying during that time is

1510
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:07,599
do you think ufos should be studied do

1511
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:09,280
you think they're real

1512
01:06:13,029 --> 01:06:10,559
do you think they might be

1513
01:06:15,029 --> 01:06:13,039
interplanetary well

1514
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:15,039
some scientists would put down most

1515
01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:16,799
scientists would put down

1516
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:19,440
that belonged to nightcap put down one

1517
01:06:24,230 --> 01:06:20,799
for sure

1518
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:24,240
and two uh

1519
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:28,640
not not unanimously

1520
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:31,599
but three very few people put that down

1521
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:33,119
but almost every

1522
01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:37,039
scientist that was a nicamp member

1523
01:06:44,789 --> 01:06:40,240
put down one for sure right right

1524
01:06:48,470 --> 01:06:44,799
that's what we were looking for um

1525
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:50,390
i've been working with this kufo stuff

1526
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:52,240
for a while now

1527
01:07:00,309 --> 01:06:56,640
and i'm constantly surprised at the

1528
01:07:01,589 --> 01:07:00,319
and mcdonald's uh james mcdonald said

1529
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:01,599
the same thing

1530
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:03,599
he said this stuff is better than what

1531
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:05,680
the air force has

1532
01:07:10,470 --> 01:07:07,520
what i've been able to see at blue book

1533
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:10,480
he said this is better

1534
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:15,760
so um there is a reservoir of good ufo

1535
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:17,760
reports that can be looked at i'm not

1536
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,000
saying it proves anything

1537
01:07:23,270 --> 01:07:22,160
but if you if you actually look at it

1538
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:23,280
some of this stuff is

1539
01:07:29,910 --> 01:07:27,039
really good um

1540
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:29,920
and like i said heinek followed up on

1541
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:31,280
cases

1542
01:07:38,789 --> 01:07:34,400
people

1543
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:38,799
followed up on cases uh

1544
01:07:45,910 --> 01:07:42,640
uh brad sparks brought up the uh

1545
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:45,920
is a case in 56 from

1546
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:48,000
project blue book and he said you know

1547
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:50,160
this this says cochise

1548
01:07:54,870 --> 01:07:52,720
and then it says new mexic you know he

1549
01:07:56,230 --> 01:07:54,880
says new mexico cochise isn't in new

1550
01:07:59,750 --> 01:07:56,240
mexico

1551
01:08:03,510 --> 01:07:59,760
so we found the 460 second uh

1552
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:03,520
case file on that and it's arizona of

1553
01:08:07,589 --> 01:08:04,000
course

1554
01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:07,599
and besides that it's a

1555
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:11,119
it's an em case um

1556
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:14,559
you know the ufo was blocking

1557
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:20,550
and i'm saying hey hey brad this is a

1558
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:22,080
this is an unknown

1559
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:30,709
i already have what do you think i did

1560
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:33,040
so and there's there's a number of

1561
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:34,159
things like that

1562
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:38,080
we we um we're scanning these things now

1563
01:08:44,789 --> 01:08:38,640
this is

1564
01:08:45,269 --> 01:08:44,799
like nasa could do we're just doing this

1565
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:45,279
very

1566
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:48,799
simple thin thing we start off

1567
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:52,480
the title of the file when we scan

1568
01:08:58,390 --> 01:08:55,679
it as the date

1569
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:58,400
well guess what there's other files that

1570
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,600
have the same date

1571
01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:01,920
or there's files in my collection or

1572
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:03,359
greenwich collection

1573
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,319
or a mahler's collection that have the

1574
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:07,920
same date

1575
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:10,239
so do we do we say well we already

1576
01:09:13,590 --> 01:09:11,040
scanned that

1577
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,600
no we scan everything yeah yeah yeah you

1578
01:09:19,030 --> 01:09:15,199
got you've got to find a way

1579
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:19,040
uh give them independent uh uh

1580
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:23,040
case numbers uh beyond the date you know

1581
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:24,400
there are different ways of doing that

1582
01:09:29,349 --> 01:09:26,319
but sorry about that yeah so

1583
01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:29,359
so what you get is four things of the

1584
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:30,719
same date

1585
01:09:35,910 --> 01:09:32,880
now there may be one piece of paper in

1586
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:35,920
one of those files that's different

1587
01:09:40,390 --> 01:09:38,799
from the others and that's like i said

1588
01:09:43,829 --> 01:09:40,400
we found the cochise

1589
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:43,839
thing we found that the don

1590
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:48,319
on the spot investigators uh

1591
01:09:51,669 --> 01:09:50,560
had more information than the blue book

1592
01:09:55,590 --> 01:09:51,679
file

1593
01:09:59,669 --> 01:09:55,600
and there's several cases like that

1594
01:10:03,030 --> 01:09:59,679
and then of course uh a pop-up ufo

1595
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:03,040
uh yeah uh these two pilots are chasing

1596
01:10:07,030 --> 01:10:04,000
this ufo

1597
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:07,040
and there's a there's an overcast

1598
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:10,320
so the ufo disappears in the overcast

1599
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:11,600
one pilot goes up

1600
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:14,640
one pilot goes down the ufo comes out of

1601
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:16,960
the overcast

1602
01:10:24,390 --> 01:10:22,480
says there it is and i'm going for it

1603
01:10:26,229 --> 01:10:24,400
and it pops back on and

1604
01:10:28,229 --> 01:10:26,239
down into the overcast it comes out the

1605
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:28,239
other one the other boss is

1606
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:34,550
i call that the pop-up ufo but

1607
01:10:41,430 --> 01:10:37,840
there's there's information in the press

1608
01:10:44,950 --> 01:10:41,440
about that and mcdonald

1609
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:44,960
interviewed the pilots uh

1610
01:10:48,709 --> 01:10:47,440
and at the time we didn't have the uh

1611
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:48,719
the project blue book

1612
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:51,760
cases with the names so

1613
01:10:54,790 --> 01:10:53,920
it was afterwards that we found out the

1614
01:10:57,510 --> 01:10:54,800
pilot

1615
01:10:58,709 --> 01:10:57,520
got the date wrong and then we said wait

1616
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:58,719
a minute this is the pop-up

1617
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:01,280
ufo and here's the guy that went after

1618
01:11:07,270 --> 01:11:02,080
it

1619
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:07,280
here

1620
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:09,520
and it's better than what's in blue book

1621
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,120
right right

1622
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,800
yeah that can happen sometimes it takes

1623
01:11:15,110 --> 01:11:14,400
a while to put these things together

1624
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:15,120
it's like the

1625
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:17,360
uh pieces in a puzzle and it takes a

1626
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:19,920
while it takes a while

1627
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:22,960
now uh chat you're back yeah i did

1628
01:11:27,030 --> 01:11:25,199
actually have a question that harkens

1629
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:27,040
back to an earlier topic

1630
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:30,239
and i'm sorry to um this topic might

1631
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,840
bore some of our listeners but it might

1632
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,040
fascinate others

1633
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:35,199
and the reason why it is relevant is

1634
01:11:39,510 --> 01:11:36,320
because

1635
01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:39,520
the uap report in part hinges

1636
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:42,719
on the classification system that the us

1637
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:43,280
government

1638
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:46,320
uses americans have already been

1639
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:48,480
fascinated by so i wanted to bring

1640
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:49,360
something to

1641
01:11:54,070 --> 01:11:52,880
jan's attention and and then i also want

1642
01:11:57,430 --> 01:11:54,080
to get a

1643
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:57,440
reaction from him on it now this is a re

1644
01:12:02,709 --> 01:11:59,120
this article isn't that recent it came

1645
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,719
out in um 2013 it says the title of it

1646
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:04,640
is the biggest problem in the u.s

1647
01:12:09,750 --> 01:12:07,440
government classification system today

1648
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:09,760
and it's on clearancejobs.com but it

1649
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:10,480
says

1650
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:12,400
every year the us government agencies

1651
01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:14,159
add petabytes

1652
01:12:17,350 --> 01:12:16,880
of information and a petabyte equals 20

1653
01:12:20,550 --> 01:12:17,360
million

1654
01:12:22,189 --> 01:12:20,560
four drawer filing cabinets all of which

1655
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,199
will be subject to a future cl

1656
01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:24,800
declassification review and if you hold

1657
01:12:28,149 --> 01:12:26,400
the us government national security

1658
01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:28,159
clearance there's a high probability

1659
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,440
that you'll be touching some of those

1660
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:31,199
documents now i

1661
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:33,600
wanted to read uh an interesting thing

1662
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:35,840
from this article it says

1663
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:38,320
interestingly the classification system

1664
01:12:43,270 --> 01:12:41,280
we currently use was created in 1953

1665
01:12:44,550 --> 01:12:43,280
and has been a topic of much discussion

1666
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:44,560
over the years

1667
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:46,960
and this is a quote it says and this

1668
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:48,000
quote by the way it's

1669
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:51,360
it's from redefining security a report

1670
01:12:54,630 --> 01:12:52,239
to the you

1671
01:12:55,910 --> 01:12:54,640
the secretary of defense and director of

1672
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:55,920
central intelligence

1673
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,320
on february 28 1994 from the joint

1674
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:00,239
security commission

1675
01:13:05,350 --> 01:13:03,280
and this quote is despite the best of

1676
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:05,360
intentions the classification system

1677
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:06,640
largely unchanged

1678
01:13:09,669 --> 01:13:09,280
since the eisenhower administration has

1679
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,679
grown

1680
01:13:14,070 --> 01:13:11,760
out of control more information has been

1681
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:14,080
classified and for extended periods of

1682
01:13:17,270 --> 01:13:14,719
time

1683
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,280
security rules proliferate becoming more

1684
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:19,520
complex yet remaining unrelated to the

1685
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:20,400
threat

1686
01:13:24,070 --> 01:13:22,640
security costs increase as inconsistent

1687
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:24,080
requirements are imposed

1688
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:26,080
by different agencies or by different

1689
01:13:30,709 --> 01:13:28,560
program managers within the same agency

1690
01:13:31,990 --> 01:13:30,719
this accretion of security rules and

1691
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,000
requirements to protect

1692
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,480
classified information does not make the

1693
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:35,920
system work better

1694
01:13:40,229 --> 01:13:38,640
indeed the classification system is not

1695
01:13:42,870 --> 01:13:40,239
trusted on the inside

1696
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:42,880
anymore than it is on the outside

1697
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:44,800
insiders do not trust it to protect

1698
01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:46,800
information that needs protection

1699
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,560
outsiders do not trust it to release

1700
01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:50,400
information that does not need

1701
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,520
protection

1702
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:53,760
this cold war classification can be

1703
01:13:58,470 --> 01:13:54,880
simplified

1704
01:14:00,550 --> 01:13:58,480
the question i have for you jan is

1705
01:14:02,149 --> 01:14:00,560
will the u.s government really work on

1706
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:02,159
that and then

1707
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:04,320
the other question i have for you is the

1708
01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:05,600
uafp report

1709
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:07,760
that's pending right now regarding when

1710
01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:09,040
it comes out

1711
01:14:12,550 --> 01:14:11,760
do you think that report could in part

1712
01:14:15,990 --> 01:14:12,560
be

1713
01:14:19,270 --> 01:14:16,000
a victim a potential victim of

1714
01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:19,280
the over or under classification of that

1715
01:14:23,590 --> 01:14:20,239
antiquated

1716
01:14:27,270 --> 01:14:23,600
system i just read about well it's not

1717
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:30,709
uh article is incompetent

1718
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:33,040
well that was a quote and so that quote

1719
01:14:37,669 --> 01:14:34,560
was from redefining

1720
01:14:40,709 --> 01:14:37,679
security to his research

1721
01:14:42,870 --> 01:14:40,719
go ahead it's a major overhaul

1722
01:14:43,990 --> 01:14:42,880
during the reagan administration because

1723
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:44,000
of the ellsberg

1724
01:14:50,550 --> 01:14:47,280
new york times thing okay well being

1725
01:14:51,990 --> 01:14:50,560
said and this is this is this is very

1726
01:14:55,590 --> 01:14:52,000
smart

1727
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:55,600
but it's not for par for the public it's

1728
01:14:59,510 --> 01:14:56,080
smart

1729
01:15:01,910 --> 01:14:59,520
for the classification system he said

1730
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:01,920
if something is classified it's

1731
01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:05,199
classified forever

1732
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:07,679
if you don't if you have a classified

1733
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:09,520
document you got for some

1734
01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:12,080
from somebody and you don't need it

1735
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:13,120
anymore

1736
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:16,800
destroy it or go back to the guy that

1737
01:15:19,990 --> 01:15:17,440
wrote it

1738
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:20,000
and ask them if what they should what

1739
01:15:24,550 --> 01:15:21,360
you should do with it

1740
01:15:28,229 --> 01:15:24,560
can you release it to the public and

1741
01:15:32,790 --> 01:15:28,239
the uh so that's called uh

1742
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:32,800
oadr uh um

1743
01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:36,640
uh um oh jeez i can't remember what

1744
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:39,040
what what it means is the guy that wrote

1745
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:41,679
it decides whether it's

1746
01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:44,400
to declassify it or not you'll probably

1747
01:15:47,990 --> 01:15:46,000
remember at three in the morning

1748
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:48,000
but i was going to ask you what happens

1749
01:15:51,910 --> 01:15:50,400
if that guy died

1750
01:15:54,950 --> 01:15:51,920
it doesn't matter there's somebody in

1751
01:15:58,149 --> 01:15:54,960
his place yeah that's true

1752
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:58,159
so the military is you know it is

1753
01:16:01,510 --> 01:15:59,760
it's like the sergeant major told me

1754
01:16:04,149 --> 01:16:01,520
this is uh you know

1755
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:04,159
nobody's indispensable in this this uh

1756
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:06,800
organization here um

1757
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:09,360
if you screw up i get somebody to

1758
01:16:12,390 --> 01:16:11,679
replace you he may not be as good as you

1759
01:16:15,430 --> 01:16:12,400
are

1760
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:15,440
but he'll be there

1761
01:16:21,830 --> 01:16:19,679
so there's always somebody there so we

1762
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:21,840
we know the us government is concerned

1763
01:16:25,510 --> 01:16:23,120
to a degree

1764
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:25,520
about uh documents being classified

1765
01:16:29,430 --> 01:16:26,640
correctly

1766
01:16:30,630 --> 01:16:29,440
um and coherently but and they have a

1767
01:16:34,149 --> 01:16:30,640
process for it

1768
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:34,159
that could be outdated at times or

1769
01:16:38,630 --> 01:16:37,199
considered outdated maybe to some but

1770
01:16:43,030 --> 01:16:38,640
do you think they're really working on

1771
01:16:53,189 --> 01:16:49,430
it's proliferating in this way

1772
01:16:56,950 --> 01:16:53,199
the classifications are probably

1773
01:16:59,510 --> 01:16:56,960
close to what they should be but

1774
01:17:03,189 --> 01:16:59,520
we have another system it's like a

1775
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:03,199
chimney system

1776
01:17:09,910 --> 01:17:06,239
if you're working on an aircraft

1777
01:17:15,030 --> 01:17:09,920
say a brand new aircraft you may your

1778
01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:15,040
your your contribution may be

1779
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:19,120
the avionics or the wing

1780
01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:20,800
so you don't need to know about what

1781
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:22,480
kind of computer goes

1782
01:17:28,229 --> 01:17:25,600
inside the aircraft

1783
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:28,239
that's different you don't need to know

1784
01:17:31,990 --> 01:17:28,840
that

1785
01:17:35,709 --> 01:17:32,000
so what they do is they

1786
01:17:38,030 --> 01:17:35,719
have what's called sensitive

1787
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:38,040
compartmentalized information they

1788
01:17:42,630 --> 01:17:39,840
compartmentalize the

1789
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:42,640
the thing you're working on the wing you

1790
01:17:46,630 --> 01:17:44,560
only need to know what the wing is

1791
01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:46,640
you're working on the avionics you only

1792
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:48,000
need to know about that

1793
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:50,320
you're working on a computer you might

1794
01:17:55,590 --> 01:17:53,679
need information from other

1795
01:17:57,189 --> 01:17:55,600
people working on this thing but it

1796
01:17:59,910 --> 01:17:57,199
keeps

1797
01:18:01,590 --> 01:17:59,920
it's a way of keeping the information on

1798
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:01,600
a close home

1799
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:03,120
because what do the russians do when

1800
01:18:04,950 --> 01:18:04,560
they're trying to get everything they

1801
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:04,960
can

1802
01:18:18,709 --> 01:18:15,270
nobody knows how many of these uh

1803
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:18,719
uh compartment

1804
01:18:26,070 --> 01:18:22,400
mentalized things are so i worked in

1805
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:26,080
in nuclear and we had one system of

1806
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:28,800
nuclear release

1807
01:18:35,669 --> 01:18:32,320
um there are other systems

1808
01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:35,679
um and remember we don't want the enemy

1809
01:18:41,030 --> 01:18:37,920
to know what's going on let me tell you

1810
01:18:43,430 --> 01:18:41,040
a brief thing uh

1811
01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:43,440
in germany this is not really true it's

1812
01:18:47,990 --> 01:18:44,320
just

1813
01:18:49,990 --> 01:18:48,000
a story to illustrate uh we had a

1814
01:18:55,030 --> 01:18:50,000
a position that we were supposed to go

1815
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:55,040
to if the russians attacked

1816
01:19:00,310 --> 01:18:57,920
uh we were we were you know uh

1817
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:00,320
supporting the germans

1818
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:03,679
and uh we'd go there and the germans had

1819
01:19:06,550 --> 01:19:04,880
come out the

1820
01:19:08,070 --> 01:19:06,560
people who were supporting they come out

1821
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:08,080
with their band

1822
01:19:13,990 --> 01:19:11,280
and play you know the local people

1823
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:14,000
one one place we just pulled into this

1824
01:19:18,470 --> 01:19:15,840
guy's driveway and

1825
01:19:21,350 --> 01:19:18,480
and that that was our position i mean

1826
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:21,360
he'd already agreed to that

1827
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:23,360
so and we're having you know they

1828
01:19:28,390 --> 01:19:24,800
whenever we go up there

1829
01:19:30,070 --> 01:19:28,400
they like i said the band be playing

1830
01:19:32,070 --> 01:19:30,080
the the germans would bring us

1831
01:19:34,470 --> 01:19:32,080
sandwiches and stuff and everybody be

1832
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:34,480
having a great old time

1833
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:36,159
and that was the biggest lie in the

1834
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:39,679
world that was not our position

1835
01:19:44,470 --> 01:19:42,560
and almost nobody in the unit knew that

1836
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:44,480
the commander

1837
01:19:51,189 --> 01:19:48,400
the uh uh some of the

1838
01:19:53,189 --> 01:19:51,199
uh the operations officer and the

1839
01:19:54,390 --> 01:19:53,199
operations sergeant duda

1840
01:19:56,870 --> 01:19:54,400
i didn't know that i was the

1841
01:19:59,110 --> 01:19:56,880
intelligence sergeant and then sometimes

1842
01:20:01,110 --> 01:19:59,120
sometimes i didn't have a intelligence

1843
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:01,120
officer i didn't know that

1844
01:20:06,310 --> 01:20:03,199
one day we went to a completely

1845
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:09,669
and these there were there were no bands

1846
01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:13,040
playing and the german officers that we

1847
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:14,000
worked with

1848
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:17,040
were deadly serious

1849
01:20:23,590 --> 01:20:20,159
and they were not kidding about anything

1850
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:23,600
this was the real thing

1851
01:20:29,669 --> 01:20:27,040
and almost nobody knew about it

1852
01:20:30,870 --> 01:20:29,679
and uh one time we went we went on a

1853
01:20:34,070 --> 01:20:30,880
terrain walk

1854
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:34,080
so university of maryland has uh

1855
01:20:40,950 --> 01:20:37,600
study tours we did a

1856
01:20:43,110 --> 01:20:40,960
phony study tour we got some local

1857
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:43,120
historian on the german

1858
01:20:54,790 --> 01:20:53,669
and we'd actually leave some papers

1859
01:20:56,870 --> 01:20:54,800
behind

1860
01:20:58,629 --> 01:20:56,880
that indicated that we were students it

1861
01:21:01,350 --> 01:20:58,639
was the officers and

1862
01:21:03,430 --> 01:21:01,360
and some of the senior ncos and we'd

1863
01:21:04,870 --> 01:21:03,440
walk around where the terrain where we

1864
01:21:07,270 --> 01:21:04,880
were going to be

1865
01:21:08,629 --> 01:21:07,280
like we were we're studying this castle

1866
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:08,639
or something

1867
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:11,760
so that's now that's

1868
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:14,239
that's not a true incident but something

1869
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:16,800
close to it like that happened

1870
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:20,400
so i understand

1871
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:22,400
i see enemies looking at you all the

1872
01:21:26,070 --> 01:21:24,080
time i follow

1873
01:21:27,430 --> 01:21:26,080
i wanted to bring up a topic if you

1874
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:27,440
don't want to talk about it that's fine

1875
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,239
but the

1876
01:21:32,629 --> 01:21:30,960
idea just the idea i'm saying this in

1877
01:21:35,189 --> 01:21:32,639
the most general way possible if you

1878
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:35,199
want to go ahead and

1879
01:21:39,590 --> 01:21:38,320
address this topic it's up to you but i

1880
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:39,600
have a suspicion

1881
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:42,000
that it is possible that the us

1882
01:21:44,790 --> 01:21:44,159
government has contingency plans for

1883
01:21:46,950 --> 01:21:44,800
just about

1884
01:21:49,189 --> 01:21:46,960
everything do you feel from your

1885
01:21:51,189 --> 01:21:49,199
perspective that it is possible

1886
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:51,199
that the us government has a contingency

1887
01:21:56,310 --> 01:21:53,120
plan regarding the uap report

1888
01:21:56,629 --> 01:21:56,320
or that kind of topic i i believe that

1889
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:56,639
that

1890
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:00,320
know

1891
01:22:06,310 --> 01:22:03,679
have told me that i understand and i'd

1892
01:22:08,870 --> 01:22:06,320
just jump in and say uh nelson and nasa

1893
01:22:12,790 --> 01:22:08,880
could be part of that plan

1894
01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:12,800
yeah i it could be but um

1895
01:22:16,629 --> 01:22:15,120
the guy i was talking about and people

1896
01:22:19,750 --> 01:22:16,639
could figure out

1897
01:22:21,990 --> 01:22:19,760
who it was probably by the number of

1898
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:22,000
people that have died

1899
01:22:28,709 --> 01:22:25,120
um so uh mark

1900
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:28,719
cashman died and uh joel carpenter died

1901
01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:29,280
and

1902
01:22:40,149 --> 01:22:36,719
uh that might be this person but

1903
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:40,159
this guy is still alive and he is

1904
01:22:45,350 --> 01:22:43,440
he is no longer working in upology

1905
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:45,360
but every once in a while he tells me a

1906
01:22:50,310 --> 01:22:47,040
couple of things

1907
01:22:52,149 --> 01:22:50,320
and he yeah

1908
01:22:54,470 --> 01:22:52,159
that's what they have a contingency plan

1909
01:22:56,790 --> 01:22:54,480
for everything they knew

1910
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:56,800
they have a contingency plan if congress

1911
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:58,239
gets interested in this

1912
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:01,440
they have a contingency plan if if the

1913
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:05,360
if the media uh penetrates

1914
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:08,560
uh their security they have all they

1915
01:23:15,030 --> 01:23:11,600
have those kind of contingency plans

1916
01:23:18,149 --> 01:23:15,040
um okay yeah so i i think

1917
01:23:22,149 --> 01:23:18,159
i think that that's that's true well if

1918
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:22,159
in in before we uh end this podcast here

1919
01:23:26,709 --> 01:23:25,040
i wanted to also mention that there is a

1920
01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:26,719
real deep concern

1921
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:30,800
uh and rightfully so that um

1922
01:23:35,189 --> 01:23:33,840
members of the press could be um

1923
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:35,199
[Music]

1924
01:23:40,229 --> 01:23:38,960
charged with legally by the us

1925
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:40,239
government

1926
01:23:44,070 --> 01:23:43,440
but but over documents that may have

1927
01:23:46,629 --> 01:23:44,080
been over

1928
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:46,639
classified when they shouldn't have been

1929
01:23:50,229 --> 01:23:47,199
made

1930
01:23:55,030 --> 01:23:50,239
secret or classified at all

1931
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:55,040
no no no no ellsberg remember ellsberg

1932
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:57,679
now he was yeah the pentagon papers yeah

1933
01:24:01,030 --> 01:23:58,320
pentagon

1934
01:24:02,950 --> 01:24:01,040
papers he was giving out this stuff and

1935
01:24:05,990 --> 01:24:02,960
ellsberg was

1936
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:06,000
uh you know and they tried to stop him

1937
01:24:11,110 --> 01:24:09,040
and the supreme court said

1938
01:24:13,270 --> 01:24:11,120
it's your responsibility to keep this

1939
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:13,280
stuff secret

1940
01:24:19,189 --> 01:24:17,600
the news people get it it's your fault

1941
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:19,199
yeah i mean ellsberg would still be on

1942
01:24:25,990 --> 01:24:22,800
the hook but the paper for going with it

1943
01:24:29,350 --> 01:24:26,000
is free and clear they're free and clear

1944
01:24:30,709 --> 01:24:29,360
yeah the uh that's why reagan put in

1945
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:30,719
that oadr

1946
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:34,560
because they could not establish

1947
01:24:44,390 --> 01:24:42,470
well there is an interesting article on

1948
01:24:46,229 --> 01:24:44,400
that topic if anybody wants to read

1949
01:24:47,270 --> 01:24:46,239
about it because apparently it is a real

1950
01:24:52,229 --> 01:24:47,280
concern

1951
01:24:52,950 --> 01:24:52,239
and it is on rcfp.org reporters

1952
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:52,960
committee

1953
01:24:56,550 --> 01:24:54,960
and it says overclassification is an

1954
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:56,560
even bigger problem in

1955
01:25:01,750 --> 01:25:00,000
the an age of leak hunting and

1956
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,760
it just starts out by saying earlier

1957
01:25:04,470 --> 01:25:03,360
this month the reporters committee for

1958
01:25:06,950 --> 01:25:04,480
freedom of the press

1959
01:25:09,270 --> 01:25:06,960
created a visualization of the uptick

1960
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:09,280
over the last decade in the news media

1961
01:25:13,990 --> 01:25:12,239
leak prosecutions that is criminal cases

1962
01:25:15,590 --> 01:25:14,000
against journalistic sources for the

1963
01:25:18,070 --> 01:25:15,600
unauthorized disclosure

1964
01:25:20,229 --> 01:25:18,080
of government secrets to the press the

1965
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:20,239
visualization builds on research by the

1966
01:25:22,709 --> 01:25:21,199
technology

1967
01:25:24,550 --> 01:25:22,719
and press freedom project at the

1968
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:24,560
reporters committee over the last year

1969
01:25:27,750 --> 01:25:26,000
to catalog all cases

1970
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:27,760
involving either formal leak

1971
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:29,520
investigations or prosecutions

1972
01:25:32,709 --> 01:25:30,719
throughout history

1973
01:25:34,870 --> 01:25:32,719
and then it just goes on to say and i'll

1974
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:34,880
be very brief that research paints in

1975
01:25:38,470 --> 01:25:36,000
stark relief

1976
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:38,480
the dangers from over classification in

1977
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:39,600
particular

1978
01:25:43,510 --> 01:25:41,600
dogged news gathering is one of the only

1979
01:25:44,310 --> 01:25:43,520
ways to hold the military intelligence

1980
01:25:46,550 --> 01:25:44,320
agencies

1981
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:46,560
and federal law enforcement accountable

1982
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:48,639
particularly given the expanse of

1983
01:25:51,990 --> 01:25:49,520
authority

1984
01:25:54,229 --> 01:25:52,000
that they claim in order to keep secrets

1985
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:54,239
over classification has been a concern

1986
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:55,360
for decades

1987
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:57,679
in 1989 an opinion piece for the

1988
01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:59,040
washington post

1989
01:26:03,270 --> 01:26:01,199
the former u.s solicitor general who

1990
01:26:05,270 --> 01:26:03,280
argued the pentagon papers case

1991
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:05,280
for the government trying to block

1992
01:26:08,790 --> 01:26:07,120
publication of certain parts

1993
01:26:10,550 --> 01:26:08,800
of a classified history of the vietnam

1994
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:10,560
war switch sides there you go it just

1995
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:12,000
mentioned what you were talking about

1996
01:26:15,590 --> 01:26:13,600
which is actually a really well known

1997
01:26:17,910 --> 01:26:15,600
part of history but anyway i'm

1998
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:17,920
really really glad we were able to talk

1999
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:20,000
to you again

2000
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:22,000
just uh just one thing on that it will

2001
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:24,320
be interesting because of course this uh

2002
01:26:28,950 --> 01:26:26,480
ufo report is going to have a public

2003
01:26:31,189 --> 01:26:28,960
facing and a classified section

2004
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:31,199
uh would be interesting if uh some of

2005
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:33,840
that classified material did get leaked

2006
01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:36,000
so uh there's that i just thought i'd

2007
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:37,360
mention it

2008
01:26:41,030 --> 01:26:40,239
yeah uh greenwood did uh did a foia with

2009
01:26:44,149 --> 01:26:41,040
the uh

2010
01:26:45,030 --> 01:26:44,159
department of justice asking if anybody

2011
01:26:48,790 --> 01:26:45,040
had ever been

2012
01:26:51,990 --> 01:26:48,800
charged uh by releasing

2013
01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:52,000
a ufo information and they said no

2014
01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:54,719
no wow that's really important that he

2015
01:26:58,790 --> 01:26:56,480
did that

2016
01:27:00,149 --> 01:26:58,800
right when when did he do that do you

2017
01:27:02,709 --> 01:27:00,159
know roughly

2018
01:27:03,590 --> 01:27:02,719
oh yeah it was it was quite a few years

2019
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:03,600
ago

2020
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:05,360
but here's the thing you know remember

2021
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:08,800
the service reports janet 146

2022
01:27:15,830 --> 01:27:11,840
it says five thousand dollars or uh

2023
01:27:19,030 --> 01:27:15,840
ten years if you uh if you uh

2024
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:19,040
release material that's in this uh

2025
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:22,800
in these messages apparently that has

2026
01:27:28,310 --> 01:27:24,480
never been

2027
01:27:30,310 --> 01:27:28,320
been done and the canadians release

2028
01:27:33,430 --> 01:27:30,320
information that are in these reports

2029
01:27:36,709 --> 01:27:33,440
all the time

2030
01:27:38,629 --> 01:27:36,719
that is fascinating probably draw uh

2031
01:27:39,990 --> 01:27:38,639
more attention and do more harm than

2032
01:27:41,350 --> 01:27:40,000
good to pursue something like that

2033
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:41,360
legally if it

2034
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:44,480
if it did ever happen uh rupell

2035
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:48,239
wanted menzel and and several other

2036
01:27:54,070 --> 01:27:48,880
people

2037
01:27:56,790 --> 01:27:54,080
uh charged with espionage

2038
01:27:59,430 --> 01:27:56,800
menzel stole part of the blue book

2039
01:28:02,390 --> 01:27:59,440
papers for a while

2040
01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:02,400
he was denied access to him and he he

2041
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:03,679
got him in a

2042
01:28:12,390 --> 01:28:07,920
underhanded way and rupell wanted to

2043
01:28:15,910 --> 01:28:12,400
to charge him and uh under security laws

2044
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:15,920
and uh colonel dunn said no

2045
01:28:20,629 --> 01:28:19,120
we're not going to do that yeah but i i

2046
01:28:24,550 --> 01:28:20,639
could see why you'd want to back away

2047
01:28:28,070 --> 01:28:27,590
well uh jan we are always so grateful to

2048
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:28,080
be able

2049
01:28:32,310 --> 01:28:31,440
to bring up these uh fascinating topics

2050
01:28:34,149 --> 01:28:32,320
with you and

2051
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:34,159
listen to you expound upon them so thank

2052
01:28:39,350 --> 01:28:36,880
you for your time

2053
01:28:40,709 --> 01:28:39,360
thanks so much thanks so much it was

2054
01:28:43,030 --> 01:28:40,719
great having you on it

2055
01:28:44,070 --> 01:28:43,040
this important time you know uh good

2056
01:28:46,390 --> 01:28:44,080
news happening

2057
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:46,400
uh interesting stuff we're uh cursed all

2058
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:48,080
have been interesting times and

2059
01:28:51,669 --> 01:28:50,080
it's good to get your analysis on what's

2060
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:51,679
going on today and of course

2061
01:28:56,149 --> 01:28:54,560
uh some historical backdrop as well

2062
01:28:59,189 --> 01:28:56,159
thanks so much

2063
01:29:01,350 --> 01:28:59,199
okay thank you uh but but jim one last

2064
01:29:03,510 --> 01:29:01,360
question before you hang up

2065
01:29:04,629 --> 01:29:03,520
i wanted to know can we ask you back on

2066
01:29:07,990 --> 01:29:04,639
the show when the uap

2067
01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:08,000
report comes out sure sure

2068
01:29:11,669 --> 01:29:09,600
okay good yeah i think i think

2069
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:11,679
regardless even uh some of the uh the

2070
01:29:15,430 --> 01:29:12,480
the negative

2071
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:15,440
uh predictions i think uh we'll we'll

2072
01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:17,199
have plenty to talk about when it does

2073
01:29:20,149 --> 01:29:17,760
come out

2074
01:29:21,750 --> 01:29:20,159
no doubt about it in my mind plenty to

2075
01:29:24,550 --> 01:29:21,760
talk about

2076
01:29:25,590 --> 01:29:24,560
okay so uh well uh that's uh that part

2077
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:25,600
of the show but uh

2078
01:29:29,830 --> 01:29:28,400
uh chant you've been busy all weekend uh

2079
01:29:33,189 --> 01:29:29,840
attending the online

2080
01:29:34,149 --> 01:29:33,199
scu conference and uh one of the cases

2081
01:29:36,830 --> 01:29:34,159
that i've had a

2082
01:29:37,750 --> 01:29:36,840
particular interest in regarding uh this

2083
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:37,760
ufa uh

2084
01:29:42,709 --> 01:29:41,040
ffo stuff and uh the work of atip

2085
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:42,719
has been the stephenville case it

2086
01:29:46,870 --> 01:29:45,120
happened while atip was operational

2087
01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:46,880
and that we've gotten some bits and

2088
01:29:51,590 --> 01:29:48,560
pieces about uh

2089
01:29:54,310 --> 01:29:51,600
atip's looking into it and uh robert

2090
01:29:54,709 --> 01:29:54,320
powell who was a uh an investigator on

2091
01:29:57,990 --> 01:29:54,719
the

2092
01:30:00,629 --> 01:29:58,000
stephenville case

2093
01:30:02,870 --> 01:30:00,639
while he was uh working with mufon uh he

2094
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:02,880
did uh quite a bit of work uh foied out

2095
01:30:33,270 --> 01:30:03,199
a

2096
01:30:34,870 --> 01:30:33,280
did i guess it just didn't show up

2097
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:34,880
regarding the browser that i'm using i

2098
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:36,880
apologize mr powell

2099
01:30:40,310 --> 01:30:38,480
um the question i have for you is are

2100
01:30:42,310 --> 01:30:40,320
you familiar with christopher mellon's

2101
01:30:43,350 --> 01:30:42,320
interview with former astronaut terry

2102
01:30:45,189 --> 01:30:43,360
verts

2103
01:30:46,629 --> 01:30:45,199
where he stated during the stephenville

2104
01:30:49,750 --> 01:30:46,639
event

2105
01:30:51,030 --> 01:30:49,760
two u.s air force f-16s chased a ufo

2106
01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:51,040
over texas

2107
01:30:55,110 --> 01:30:52,480
the stephenville incident was

2108
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,120
investigated by atip and that a-tip

2109
01:30:59,510 --> 01:30:57,600
investigators were stonewalled by the

2110
01:31:00,790 --> 01:30:59,520
u.s air force pilots who said they

2111
01:31:05,510 --> 01:31:00,800
signed ndas

2112
01:31:09,189 --> 01:31:07,430
yes i'm aware of that chant actually i

2113
01:31:12,950 --> 01:31:09,199
talked to chris about that

2114
01:31:17,189 --> 01:31:16,229
atip apparently used the stephenville

2115
01:31:20,870 --> 01:31:17,199
report

2116
01:31:23,510 --> 01:31:20,880
right to find out uh basically they

2117
01:31:25,669 --> 01:31:23,520
read the report they found out about the

2118
01:31:27,350 --> 01:31:25,679
f-16 pilots so then

2119
01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:27,360
they were able to locate the pilots

2120
01:31:33,030 --> 01:31:28,960
because in my report

2121
01:31:33,669 --> 01:31:33,040
i give the date of when those planes

2122
01:31:37,110 --> 01:31:33,679
took off

2123
01:31:40,229 --> 01:31:37,120
i also had a copy of voya copy

2124
01:31:42,470 --> 01:31:40,239
of the actual flights and so it gives

2125
01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:42,480
the flight information now all the

2126
01:31:47,270 --> 01:31:43,600
pilots

2127
01:31:48,790 --> 01:31:47,280
names were redacted in the foia uh reply

2128
01:31:51,110 --> 01:31:48,800
that i got but i'm sure that

2129
01:31:52,790 --> 01:31:51,120
chris and the atic group were probably

2130
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:52,800
able to get their names

2131
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:56,880
and so he said they went to those pilots

2132
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:59,199
and they said you know we've got top

2133
01:32:01,830 --> 01:32:01,199
secret clearance we're authorized to get

2134
01:32:04,629 --> 01:32:01,840
this

2135
01:32:04,950 --> 01:32:04,639
data blah blah blah and the pilots told

2136
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:04,960
them

2137
01:32:08,870 --> 01:32:07,040
well doesn't make the same difference we

2138
01:32:10,149 --> 01:32:08,880
you know we were told not to talk about

2139
01:32:13,110 --> 01:32:10,159
this and we're not going to

2140
01:32:13,830 --> 01:32:13,120
so he was they were unsuccessful in

2141
01:32:16,709 --> 01:32:13,840
getting any

2142
01:32:19,270 --> 01:32:16,719
information from the f-16 pilots okay

2143
01:32:22,790 --> 01:32:19,280
thank you for your time

2144
01:32:24,470 --> 01:32:22,800
so chant hannah the old of my browser

2145
01:32:27,110 --> 01:32:24,480
isn't working properly trick

2146
01:32:27,750 --> 01:32:27,120
to get on audio and ask the question

2147
01:32:31,669 --> 01:32:27,760
that was a

2148
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:31,679
rich was thrilled

2149
01:32:35,030 --> 01:32:33,360
that you did that in there but you got

2150
01:32:36,870 --> 01:32:35,040
that in there but we did get the better

2151
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:36,880
audio with you actually asking the

2152
01:33:01,110 --> 01:32:38,400
question that was great stuff so

2153
01:33:08,709 --> 01:33:04,950
helps to run the um

2154
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:08,719
scientific coalition's uap

2155
01:33:12,149 --> 01:33:10,480
event annually and i believe it's

2156
01:33:15,430 --> 01:33:12,159
happened for two years

2157
01:33:18,950 --> 01:33:15,440
and this is the second year and

2158
01:33:20,470 --> 01:33:18,960
that quote that i was able i'm sorry

2159
01:33:22,790 --> 01:33:20,480
that question is able to present i'd

2160
01:33:25,350 --> 01:33:22,800
like to go and give credit to frank

2161
01:33:26,870 --> 01:33:25,360
my host my co-host because he thought up

2162
01:33:30,229 --> 01:33:26,880
that question

2163
01:33:31,430 --> 01:33:30,239
and um i was able to yeah i want to know

2164
01:33:33,270 --> 01:33:31,440
more about stephenville

2165
01:33:35,350 --> 01:33:33,280
i think it'll be really interesting to

2166
01:33:36,550 --> 01:33:35,360
see whether or not this case is

2167
01:33:39,910 --> 01:33:36,560
mentioned in the

2168
01:33:41,669 --> 01:33:39,920
uh the ufo report because you know hey

2169
01:33:42,149 --> 01:33:41,679
it's got everything i had the graphic up

2170
01:33:46,149 --> 01:33:42,159
there

2171
01:33:49,510 --> 01:33:46,159
uh 1900 to 2000 miles an hour speed

2172
01:33:52,629 --> 01:33:49,520
at least 500 feet in size uh

2173
01:33:54,149 --> 01:33:52,639
tracked by radar over texas uh and uh

2174
01:33:54,870 --> 01:33:54,159
we've got the additional information

2175
01:33:58,390 --> 01:33:54,880
there was a

2176
01:34:00,629 --> 01:33:58,400
an f-16 pursuit of this ufo

2177
01:34:01,669 --> 01:34:00,639
uh if this not isn't in the report you

2178
01:34:05,189 --> 01:34:01,679
know uh

2179
01:34:08,790 --> 01:34:05,199
i gotta say what's going on here um

2180
01:34:10,950 --> 01:34:08,800
yes and we let's do talk about what you

2181
01:34:12,070 --> 01:34:10,960
just said but just for reference sake i

2182
01:34:14,790 --> 01:34:12,080
wanted to go ahead

2183
01:34:16,629 --> 01:34:14,800
and let folks know exactly what i was

2184
01:34:18,310 --> 01:34:16,639
involved in here so i was attending the

2185
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:18,320
scientific coalition's

2186
01:34:23,030 --> 01:34:21,280
uap conference and this was on uh was

2187
01:34:25,350 --> 01:34:23,040
this on saturday frank

2188
01:34:26,709 --> 01:34:25,360
uh yeah that part you got saturday and

2189
01:34:27,590 --> 01:34:26,719
then there was some stuff today too i

2190
01:34:30,470 --> 01:34:27,600
guess okay yeah

2191
01:34:32,310 --> 01:34:30,480
so this was on june 5th and just so

2192
01:34:34,950 --> 01:34:32,320
everybody knows the name of that

2193
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:34,960
particular talk that mr robert powell

2194
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:36,400
was giving

2195
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:38,560
that was called an examination of past

2196
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:40,880
attempts at statistical analysis of

2197
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:43,360
ufo reports and a proposal for an

2198
01:34:47,510 --> 01:34:44,080
improved and

2199
01:34:49,430 --> 01:34:47,520
improved analysis technique now uh

2200
01:34:50,790 --> 01:34:49,440
it only takes like 30 seconds to read

2201
01:34:52,470 --> 01:34:50,800
this i think it's really important for

2202
01:34:53,270 --> 01:34:52,480
our members our listeners to be able to

2203
01:34:56,070 --> 01:34:53,280
hear

2204
01:34:57,910 --> 01:34:56,080
uh what his abstract was based on and

2205
01:35:01,590 --> 01:34:57,920
then want to talk about stephenville

2206
01:35:04,950 --> 01:35:01,600
so that is a really interesting title um

2207
01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:04,960
regarding what powell presented and um

2208
01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:06,159
i'm not going to read the entire

2209
01:35:09,350 --> 01:35:07,920
abstract i'm only going to read an

2210
01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:09,360
excerpt from it

2211
01:35:12,950 --> 01:35:12,080
but the first part of the abstract

2212
01:35:14,629 --> 01:35:12,960
indicates

2213
01:35:15,990 --> 01:35:14,639
that he will examine the problems with

2214
01:35:17,830 --> 01:35:16,000
ufo databases

2215
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:17,840
it will identify the percent of ufo

2216
01:35:21,270 --> 01:35:19,199
reports that are true unknowns in

2217
01:35:22,229 --> 01:35:21,280
various historical databases such as

2218
01:35:24,310 --> 01:35:22,239
blue book

2219
01:35:26,310 --> 01:35:24,320
nycap new fork and mufon it will

2220
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:26,320
identify what can and cannot be analyzed

2221
01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:27,360
in such a database

2222
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:28,960
and it will discuss the correlation

2223
01:35:31,830 --> 01:35:30,639
issues involved with attempts to analyze

2224
01:35:34,070 --> 01:35:31,840
and what can be considered

2225
01:35:36,310 --> 01:35:34,080
corrupt data sets the second part of the

2226
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:36,320
presentation will examine past attempts

2227
01:35:39,510 --> 01:35:37,840
to look for correlations such as a

2228
01:35:42,229 --> 01:35:39,520
brookings institute study

2229
01:35:43,990 --> 01:35:42,239
for the air force project's blue book

2230
01:35:46,390 --> 01:35:44,000
and the conclusions that were drawn

2231
01:35:47,669 --> 01:35:46,400
now the question i have for my co-host

2232
01:35:51,510 --> 01:35:47,679
is

2233
01:35:52,950 --> 01:35:51,520
do you believe that and i have a few

2234
01:35:54,790 --> 01:35:52,960
questions so hear me out

2235
01:35:56,149 --> 01:35:54,800
there are multiple questions the

2236
01:35:58,950 --> 01:35:56,159
questions i have for you

2237
01:36:00,790 --> 01:35:58,960
that are kind of many but i'll try and

2238
01:36:03,270 --> 01:36:00,800
do as few as possible

2239
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:03,280
were there a lot of people researching

2240
01:36:07,109 --> 01:36:04,800
forensically

2241
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:07,119
in a forensic manner the stephenville

2242
01:36:10,310 --> 01:36:07,840
case uh

2243
01:36:12,149 --> 01:36:10,320
other question i have is do you think

2244
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:12,159
the folks that came

2245
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:15,360
forward with their research their

2246
01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:17,520
forensic related research

2247
01:36:24,629 --> 01:36:21,199
and data on the stephenville case

2248
01:36:27,030 --> 01:36:24,639
had anything of value to share and

2249
01:36:29,030 --> 01:36:27,040
then the other question i have is what

2250
01:36:30,950 --> 01:36:29,040
significant

2251
01:36:32,229 --> 01:36:30,960
what was the significance of the best

2252
01:36:35,830 --> 01:36:32,239
part of the reports

2253
01:36:39,350 --> 01:36:35,840
to you well as far as i know that's the

2254
01:36:41,350 --> 01:36:39,360
uh the report that uh powell and uh

2255
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:41,360
glenn schultz wrote for mufon

2256
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:44,320
was the the only you know real forensic

2257
01:36:47,270 --> 01:36:46,320
report they had fourier data so they had

2258
01:36:49,189 --> 01:36:47,280
something to go on

2259
01:36:51,430 --> 01:36:49,199
plus they also interviewed a lot of the

2260
01:36:51,990 --> 01:36:51,440
witnesses uh people tend to forget now

2261
01:36:54,310 --> 01:36:52,000
especially

2262
01:36:56,229 --> 01:36:54,320
folks who've come into this ufo stuff

2263
01:36:59,910 --> 01:36:56,239
maybe since 2017

2264
01:37:00,229 --> 01:36:59,920
when ttsa kicked off uh they tend to for

2265
01:37:02,629 --> 01:37:00,239
uh

2266
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:02,639
maybe not be aware of or tend to forget

2267
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:03,280
this was

2268
01:37:09,669 --> 01:37:06,960
really the last time in the states where

2269
01:37:10,390 --> 01:37:09,679
an entire community was sort of up in

2270
01:37:13,510 --> 01:37:10,400
arms over

2271
01:37:15,430 --> 01:37:13,520
a series of ufo incidents and it got a

2272
01:37:16,709 --> 01:37:15,440
lot of attention at the time this was in

2273
01:37:19,350 --> 01:37:16,719
2008

2274
01:37:21,189 --> 01:37:19,360
so when i seriously got into this was 09

2275
01:37:23,510 --> 01:37:21,199
it was still getting talked about it was

2276
01:37:25,430 --> 01:37:23,520
kind of dying down but still i was aware

2277
01:37:28,550 --> 01:37:25,440
of it it made national news

2278
01:37:31,510 --> 01:37:28,560
larry king went down to stephenville and

2279
01:37:33,109 --> 01:37:31,520
did an episode about ufos uh down there

2280
01:37:35,669 --> 01:37:33,119
in stephenville and

2281
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:35,679
james fox's uh movie not the the one

2282
01:37:39,990 --> 01:37:37,600
that he just released the phenomenon

2283
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:40,000
but the previous one i know what i saw

2284
01:37:44,310 --> 01:37:42,159
focused a lot on witnesses uh

2285
01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:44,320
from the area but that's what they had

2286
01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:45,760
they had the witnesses

2287
01:37:51,030 --> 01:37:48,960
pal had the radar data but as far as any

2288
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:51,040
government involvement and either

2289
01:37:54,310 --> 01:37:53,840
doing any chasing or any investigating

2290
01:38:00,310 --> 01:37:54,320
uh

2291
01:38:01,189 --> 01:38:00,320
any real information about it so what

2292
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:01,199
obviously

2293
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:02,719
you know you could look at the dates

2294
01:38:05,270 --> 01:38:04,800
that atip was operational and there it

2295
01:38:08,709 --> 01:38:05,280
is

2296
01:38:10,310 --> 01:38:08,719
did they take a look at it

2297
01:38:12,310 --> 01:38:10,320
that's something i've really wanted to

2298
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:12,320
know about from day one since that new

2299
01:38:15,510 --> 01:38:14,000
york times article came out

2300
01:38:17,750 --> 01:38:15,520
it's something i asked george knapp

2301
01:38:19,430 --> 01:38:17,760
about and he said yeah he's uh he's uh

2302
01:38:21,830 --> 01:38:19,440
can say with some confidence

2303
01:38:22,870 --> 01:38:21,840
uh that they did look at it and then

2304
01:38:24,310 --> 01:38:22,880
unsolicited

2305
01:38:26,629 --> 01:38:24,320
chris mellon brought it up in that

2306
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:26,639
interview with uh terry verts that

2307
01:38:30,310 --> 01:38:29,040
you mentioned uh when you asked pal that

2308
01:38:32,470 --> 01:38:30,320
question so

2309
01:38:33,510 --> 01:38:32,480
the very little that we really have to

2310
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:33,520
go on just that

2311
01:38:38,709 --> 01:38:37,199
uh from melon atip went down there their

2312
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:38,719
investigators

2313
01:38:42,709 --> 01:38:40,560
asked the air force pilot so they were

2314
01:38:45,270 --> 01:38:42,719
able to figure out who was involved

2315
01:38:47,270 --> 01:38:45,280
and they got stonewalled basically so

2316
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:47,280
it'll be interesting to see

2317
01:38:51,189 --> 01:38:49,840
uh if there's any mention of this

2318
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:51,199
particular case

2319
01:38:55,270 --> 01:38:53,600
in the ufo report that comes out towards

2320
01:38:57,910 --> 01:38:55,280
the end of the month hopefully

2321
01:38:59,590 --> 01:38:57,920
and if not it's something that we should

2322
01:39:03,270 --> 01:38:59,600
still be banging on because

2323
01:39:06,629 --> 01:39:03,280
this is a an important case that merits

2324
01:39:08,709 --> 01:39:06,639
an explanation do you think that the

2325
01:39:11,430 --> 01:39:08,719
stephenville case is just as

2326
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:11,440
important as the phoenix lights case oh

2327
01:39:16,390 --> 01:39:13,360
more so more so for sure

2328
01:39:18,870 --> 01:39:16,400
i know you think more so but

2329
01:39:19,990 --> 01:39:18,880
exactly why and by the way just for

2330
01:39:21,910 --> 01:39:20,000
listeners

2331
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:21,920
most people know what the phoenix lights

2332
01:39:25,189 --> 01:39:24,320
was about but it was a series of widely

2333
01:39:27,510 --> 01:39:25,199
cited

2334
01:39:29,510 --> 01:39:27,520
ufos observed in the skies over the u.s

2335
01:39:30,550 --> 01:39:29,520
states of arizona nevada and the mexican

2336
01:39:33,430 --> 01:39:30,560
state of sonora

2337
01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:33,440
on march 13th 1997 and just so everybody

2338
01:39:36,709 --> 01:39:34,239
knows

2339
01:39:37,830 --> 01:39:36,719
um i'm reading that from wikipedia i i

2340
01:39:39,830 --> 01:39:37,840
cover the phoenix lights

2341
01:39:41,669 --> 01:39:39,840
all the time every year and i did i

2342
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:41,679
think was like a two or three hour show

2343
01:39:45,669 --> 01:39:42,560
on it and i spent

2344
01:39:46,470 --> 01:39:45,679
seven hours at dr lin kitai's event that

2345
01:39:48,790 --> 01:39:46,480
she had

2346
01:39:49,910 --> 01:39:48,800
at the harkins theater when it was uh

2347
01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:49,920
going on but

2348
01:39:53,430 --> 01:39:51,760
but anyway yes so everybody's so

2349
01:39:55,910 --> 01:39:53,440
familiar with that but you happen to

2350
01:39:59,750 --> 01:39:55,920
think that the stephenville

2351
01:40:01,750 --> 01:39:59,760
incident is far more significant but why

2352
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:01,760
yeah well i'll tell you why number one

2353
01:40:07,430 --> 01:40:04,560
now we've got the the radar report okay

2354
01:40:08,390 --> 01:40:07,440
from uh mufon uh powell and schultz okay

2355
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:08,400
we've got that

2356
01:40:14,870 --> 01:40:12,239
and we've got uh the uh the fact that

2357
01:40:15,669 --> 01:40:14,880
uh it happened uh while during the time

2358
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:15,679
that atip

2359
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:18,239
was operational they looked into it per

2360
01:40:23,750 --> 01:40:20,400
christopher mellon they got stonewalled

2361
01:40:24,310 --> 01:40:23,760
okay uh why did that happen and uh also

2362
01:40:32,070 --> 01:40:24,320
it

2363
01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:32,080
this 20-year time frame that apparently

2364
01:40:35,189 --> 01:40:33,440
this uh this

2365
01:40:37,189 --> 01:40:35,199
report that's going to be released in

2366
01:40:39,350 --> 01:40:37,199
june uh from the dni

2367
01:40:41,830 --> 01:40:39,360
covers so it that falls within the time

2368
01:40:43,270 --> 01:40:41,840
frame uh phoenix lights goes back to 97

2369
01:40:44,550 --> 01:40:43,280
so you're talking about almost a quarter

2370
01:40:47,189 --> 01:40:44,560
of a century now

2371
01:40:48,070 --> 01:40:47,199
uh yeah uh stephenville's uh almost a

2372
01:40:50,470 --> 01:40:48,080
decade but

2373
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:50,480
it's still within the time frame and

2374
01:40:53,270 --> 01:40:51,360
we've got enough

2375
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:53,280
information about it that yeah we'd like

2376
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:54,639
to know more about this

2377
01:40:57,430 --> 01:40:56,080
i mean i'm not saying we shouldn't know

2378
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:57,440
more about phoenix lights i'd like to

2379
01:41:00,629 --> 01:40:58,800
know more about that one too

2380
01:41:02,390 --> 01:41:00,639
but it seems like we at least have a

2381
01:41:04,229 --> 01:41:02,400
better bead on

2382
01:41:05,910 --> 01:41:04,239
what this case is about and uh some key

2383
01:41:08,629 --> 01:41:05,920
facts uh regarding this case

2384
01:41:10,550 --> 01:41:08,639
uh than we do on the other so this i

2385
01:41:11,990 --> 01:41:10,560
want to ask you something in a very

2386
01:41:15,350 --> 01:41:12,000
biased way

2387
01:41:17,910 --> 01:41:15,360
okay okay so um my

2388
01:41:19,669 --> 01:41:17,920
my bias perception is if somebody views

2389
01:41:23,109 --> 01:41:19,679
something that could be

2390
01:41:24,950 --> 01:41:23,119
um not of this world in the sky

2391
01:41:27,430 --> 01:41:24,960
or coming out of the ocean and it

2392
01:41:31,189 --> 01:41:27,440
definitely does not appear to be

2393
01:41:33,910 --> 01:41:31,199
human made um

2394
01:41:36,870 --> 01:41:33,920
then then imagine a series of multiple

2395
01:41:38,629 --> 01:41:36,880
witnesses seeing the same thing

2396
01:41:41,590 --> 01:41:38,639
don't you think from your perspective

2397
01:41:43,510 --> 01:41:41,600
it's a lot easier for witnesses to cope

2398
01:41:45,189 --> 01:41:43,520
psychologically with what they saw if it

2399
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:45,199
was a mass event

2400
01:41:48,870 --> 01:41:46,960
as opposed to just one lonely event

2401
01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:48,880
where one person saw it and nobody else

2402
01:41:53,030 --> 01:41:49,760
did

2403
01:41:55,109 --> 01:41:53,040
oh sure sure absolutely and in this case

2404
01:41:56,470 --> 01:41:55,119
we've got the extra added attraction of

2405
01:41:58,550 --> 01:41:56,480
having the radar report

2406
01:42:01,669 --> 01:41:58,560
which is physical evidence something was

2407
01:42:04,070 --> 01:42:01,679
there something was flying there

2408
01:42:05,109 --> 01:42:04,080
you know i i do hold witnesses in a very

2409
01:42:07,830 --> 01:42:05,119
high regard

2410
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:07,840
but i think when you've got physical

2411
01:42:11,910 --> 01:42:09,679
evidence in the form of a radar report

2412
01:42:14,709 --> 01:42:11,920
let's say or a fleer

2413
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:14,719
a camera video uh things along those

2414
01:42:17,830 --> 01:42:15,360
lines

2415
01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:17,840
that just that just adds uh that much

2416
01:42:20,390 --> 01:42:18,480
more

2417
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:20,400
um there's physical evidence there and

2418
01:42:24,229 --> 01:42:21,920
that is physical evidence so

2419
01:42:25,910 --> 01:42:24,239
right and and also just for a listener's

2420
01:42:28,629 --> 01:42:25,920
sake just wanted to say something

2421
01:42:30,310 --> 01:42:28,639
and regarding why i agree with frank

2422
01:42:30,709 --> 01:42:30,320
math sightings are a lot easier to deal

2423
01:42:34,390 --> 01:42:30,719
with

2424
01:42:37,030 --> 01:42:34,400
when it comes to ufo reports because

2425
01:42:39,030 --> 01:42:37,040
let's just say um this is a total

2426
01:42:41,830 --> 01:42:39,040
fictional example i'm going to give here

2427
01:42:45,030 --> 01:42:41,840
but you have an individual who might not

2428
01:42:48,390 --> 01:42:45,040
have who might have a checkered past

2429
01:42:51,590 --> 01:42:48,400
or they might have some kind of

2430
01:42:53,109 --> 01:42:51,600
disability that

2431
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:53,119
where they might hallucinate

2432
01:42:55,590 --> 01:42:55,040
occasionally or they have a disorder

2433
01:42:58,629 --> 01:42:55,600
that

2434
01:43:00,149 --> 01:42:58,639
warps their perception of reality

2435
01:43:01,590 --> 01:43:00,159
according to whatever it is they've been

2436
01:43:06,149 --> 01:43:01,600
diagnosed with

2437
01:43:06,790 --> 01:43:06,159
um you know i it's really difficult for

2438
01:43:10,310 --> 01:43:06,800
people

2439
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:10,320
who have truly seen something anomalous

2440
01:43:14,550 --> 01:43:12,480
to be in that kind of position regarding

2441
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:14,560
their character and be characterized in

2442
01:43:18,709 --> 01:43:16,080
a certain manner

2443
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:18,719
and and too many times people in that

2444
01:43:21,430 --> 01:43:20,480
kind of position have been denigrated

2445
01:43:24,149 --> 01:43:21,440
derided

2446
01:43:25,590 --> 01:43:24,159
and cast aside and then you but when you

2447
01:43:27,189 --> 01:43:25,600
have a mass sighting

2448
01:43:28,950 --> 01:43:27,199
it almost doesn't matter what your

2449
01:43:31,430 --> 01:43:28,960
background is as long as

2450
01:43:32,629 --> 01:43:31,440
multiple people saw the same thing and

2451
01:43:34,950 --> 01:43:32,639
they're describing it

2452
01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:34,960
in the same in a similar manner oh

2453
01:43:38,149 --> 01:43:36,560
definitely it helps sure

2454
01:43:39,830 --> 01:43:38,159
what i'm saying yeah it said the old

2455
01:43:40,709 --> 01:43:39,840
strength and numbers thing it absolutely

2456
01:43:43,990 --> 01:43:40,719
makes a difference

2457
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:44,000
also it's kind of sad because in a way

2458
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:46,400
i think that there's been a prejudice

2459
01:43:51,189 --> 01:43:47,840
and a stereotype

2460
01:43:54,390 --> 01:43:51,199
laid upon a lot of these folks that um

2461
01:43:57,830 --> 01:43:54,400
who do have um a mental disabilities

2462
01:44:00,310 --> 01:43:57,840
and have been cast aside in an unjust

2463
01:44:02,149 --> 01:44:00,320
manner or or even if they don't you know

2464
01:44:03,669 --> 01:44:02,159
even if they're solid citizens but it's

2465
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:03,679
just one person alone

2466
01:44:08,629 --> 01:44:06,000
seeing something well uh you know i've

2467
01:44:11,830 --> 01:44:08,639
got a lot of confidence in ufo witnesses

2468
01:44:14,790 --> 01:44:11,840
but the cases where you've got

2469
01:44:15,510 --> 01:44:14,800
let's say a witness uh two different

2470
01:44:18,149 --> 01:44:15,520
witnesses

2471
01:44:19,510 --> 01:44:18,159
in different locations unrelated to each

2472
01:44:22,709 --> 01:44:19,520
other seeing the same thing

2473
01:44:25,189 --> 01:44:22,719
that helps you know that helps uh having

2474
01:44:26,950 --> 01:44:25,199
uh the the physical evidence uh to back

2475
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:26,960
up with that you're seeing a radar

2476
01:44:30,790 --> 01:44:28,560
report to go along with your

2477
01:44:32,709 --> 01:44:30,800
witness account that absolutely helps

2478
01:44:34,310 --> 01:44:32,719
for the folks that are kind of like

2479
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:34,320
alone you know and they happen to see

2480
01:44:38,790 --> 01:44:36,960
something unusual

2481
01:44:40,550 --> 01:44:38,800
they've always got that experience but

2482
01:44:41,510 --> 01:44:40,560
when you look at the stuff objectively

2483
01:44:45,270 --> 01:44:41,520
you got to say

2484
01:44:47,030 --> 01:44:45,280
hey the more the better yeah it raises

2485
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:47,040
the level of the entire case when you've

2486
01:44:50,229 --> 01:44:47,520
got

2487
01:44:51,990 --> 01:44:50,239
you know multiple people uh radar

2488
01:44:53,910 --> 01:44:52,000
physical evidence that kind of thing

2489
01:44:55,109 --> 01:44:53,920
to sort of back up the story i mean it's

2490
01:44:56,550 --> 01:44:55,119
it's just the way it is

2491
01:44:58,950 --> 01:44:56,560
but you know if you've had that kind of

2492
01:45:01,030 --> 01:44:58,960
experience and you don't have somebody

2493
01:45:02,950 --> 01:45:01,040
necessarily to back up your story

2494
01:45:04,629 --> 01:45:02,960
you don't have a radar report to go

2495
01:45:06,390 --> 01:45:04,639
along with it well you know you still

2496
01:45:08,390 --> 01:45:06,400
got that experience you know

2497
01:45:09,669 --> 01:45:08,400
nobody can take that away from you

2498
01:45:11,590 --> 01:45:09,679
you're right another thing i wanted to

2499
01:45:14,070 --> 01:45:11,600
bring up which is interesting is

2500
01:45:16,149 --> 01:45:14,080
um you know rich hoffman said this

2501
01:45:17,350 --> 01:45:16,159
recently but i actually have been saying

2502
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:17,360
this

2503
01:45:20,629 --> 01:45:19,440
for a long time also and many people

2504
01:45:22,629 --> 01:45:20,639
have it's not just

2505
01:45:24,870 --> 01:45:22,639
rich hoffman or myself it's been many

2506
01:45:26,229 --> 01:45:24,880
people in and out of the ufo community

2507
01:45:28,229 --> 01:45:26,239
who have stated

2508
01:45:29,590 --> 01:45:28,239
if there is evidence at the level of

2509
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:29,600
radar data

2510
01:45:33,189 --> 01:45:31,600
it's really vitally important for us to

2511
01:45:36,629 --> 01:45:33,199
see the raw

2512
01:45:38,709 --> 01:45:36,639
data oh yeah because you and i both know

2513
01:45:42,149 --> 01:45:38,719
that deep fakes are totally possible

2514
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:42,159
in fact deep fakes are so good now

2515
01:45:46,390 --> 01:45:44,480
that the artificial intelligence to

2516
01:45:49,750 --> 01:45:46,400
detect the deep fakes

2517
01:45:52,149 --> 01:45:49,760
can't even detect a deep fake anymore

2518
01:45:52,950 --> 01:45:52,159
that's really good and that's scary so

2519
01:45:54,950 --> 01:45:52,960
that's why it's

2520
01:45:56,629 --> 01:45:54,960
vitally important it's of critical

2521
01:45:58,070 --> 01:45:56,639
importance yeah you want to get that

2522
01:46:00,790 --> 01:45:58,080
kind of forensic data

2523
01:46:02,790 --> 01:46:00,800
you want the data you want the uh the

2524
01:46:05,750 --> 01:46:02,800
chain of custody and all that

2525
01:46:06,390 --> 01:46:05,760
and i don't know that that's going to be

2526
01:46:09,189 --> 01:46:06,400
in the

2527
01:46:10,390 --> 01:46:09,199
uh the public facing part of the report

2528
01:46:11,990 --> 01:46:10,400
you have to think it's going to

2529
01:46:15,030 --> 01:46:12,000
absolutely positively be

2530
01:46:16,790 --> 01:46:15,040
in the uh in the uh the guts the uh

2531
01:46:18,390 --> 01:46:16,800
uh the the classified section of the

2532
01:46:19,270 --> 01:46:18,400
report you gotta you gotta think it's

2533
01:46:21,030 --> 01:46:19,280
gonna be in there

2534
01:46:22,550 --> 01:46:21,040
uh because you look at uh all these

2535
01:46:24,870 --> 01:46:22,560
people who are coming out

2536
01:46:26,229 --> 01:46:24,880
uh when you got nelson uh just recently

2537
01:46:28,470 --> 01:46:26,239
you've got these uh

2538
01:46:29,830 --> 01:46:28,480
former uh director-level intelligence

2539
01:46:32,950 --> 01:46:29,840
officials like uh

2540
01:46:34,950 --> 01:46:32,960
uh like uh ratcliffe who uh

2541
01:46:36,310 --> 01:46:34,960
jan was uh going on quite a bit about

2542
01:46:37,270 --> 01:46:36,320
now he's right about that you know i

2543
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:37,280
agree with all that

2544
01:46:41,030 --> 01:46:40,400
and uh woolsey clapper brennan all those

2545
01:46:45,030 --> 01:46:41,040
guys

2546
01:46:47,510 --> 01:46:45,040
uh talking the way they're talking it uh

2547
01:46:48,390 --> 01:46:47,520
it leads me to believe that we're going

2548
01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:48,400
to we are

2549
01:46:51,350 --> 01:46:49,840
we're actually inching towards

2550
01:46:52,070 --> 01:46:51,360
disclosure that's uh that's what i'm

2551
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,080
thinking

2552
01:46:55,270 --> 01:46:54,639
uh based on what i'm hearing and i think

2553
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:55,280
uh

2554
01:46:58,629 --> 01:46:57,360
the na i think the naysayers and they're

2555
01:47:01,510 --> 01:46:58,639
talking about disappointment

2556
01:47:03,270 --> 01:47:01,520
well maybe they're those expectations uh

2557
01:47:06,229 --> 01:47:03,280
uh might be a little high

2558
01:47:07,109 --> 01:47:06,239
on this next step on the journey but uh

2559
01:47:10,870 --> 01:47:07,119
i think

2560
01:47:12,310 --> 01:47:10,880
kicking and screaming their way behind

2561
01:47:14,709 --> 01:47:12,320
the scenes to not

2562
01:47:17,270 --> 01:47:14,719
disclose as much as possible some some

2563
01:47:19,350 --> 01:47:17,280
segments maybe in uh some segments uh

2564
01:47:20,550 --> 01:47:19,360
not i mean the government is a big thing

2565
01:47:23,750 --> 01:47:20,560
you know and

2566
01:47:24,390 --> 01:47:23,760
uh some uh the like jan was talking

2567
01:47:26,149 --> 01:47:24,400
about the

2568
01:47:28,149 --> 01:47:26,159
uh there were uh disagreements

2569
01:47:29,750 --> 01:47:28,159
internally and uh inter-service

2570
01:47:32,390 --> 01:47:29,760
rivalries and all that

2571
01:47:33,510 --> 01:47:32,400
so we will we will see what happens and

2572
01:47:35,669 --> 01:47:33,520
all i can say is

2573
01:47:37,750 --> 01:47:35,679
i guess we're looking at the the 25th

2574
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:37,760
the last friday of the month that's the

2575
01:47:40,870 --> 01:47:40,080
uh the drop dead date and uh uh

2576
01:47:43,109 --> 01:47:40,880
hopefully we

2577
01:47:44,310 --> 01:47:43,119
will see it by then i mean a reliable

2578
01:47:45,990 --> 01:47:44,320
source tells me

2579
01:47:48,790 --> 01:47:46,000
that the report will either be out a

2580
01:47:51,590 --> 01:47:48,800
little early on time or late

2581
01:47:52,229 --> 01:47:51,600
so um i just wanted to bring up one last

2582
01:47:55,270 --> 01:47:52,239
topic

2583
01:47:56,790 --> 01:47:55,280
that was a joke chat by the way

2584
01:47:59,109 --> 01:47:56,800
you know i just want to tell our

2585
01:48:01,189 --> 01:47:59,119
listeners frank and i talk every day and

2586
01:48:03,030 --> 01:48:01,199
we joke all the time we say the crazy

2587
01:48:05,750 --> 01:48:03,040
stuff to each other it's hilarious but

2588
01:48:06,790 --> 01:48:05,760
anyone wanted to bring up mishu kakao

2589
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:06,800
okaku

2590
01:48:13,910 --> 01:48:09,920
i can never say his name not right

2591
01:48:16,790 --> 01:48:13,920
yeah that okay okay this scientist

2592
01:48:18,390 --> 01:48:16,800
uh whom we're all familiar with he said

2593
01:48:20,870 --> 01:48:18,400
not that long ago

2594
01:48:22,229 --> 01:48:20,880
um but i do want to say something after

2595
01:48:24,790 --> 01:48:22,239
i sort of quote him

2596
01:48:25,270 --> 01:48:24,800
he said something to the effect of hey

2597
01:48:28,070 --> 01:48:25,280
if you

2598
01:48:29,590 --> 01:48:28,080
are abducted you know be sure to steal

2599
01:48:31,350 --> 01:48:29,600
something because there's no law out

2600
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:31,360
there saying that you can't steal

2601
01:48:37,910 --> 01:48:34,880
okay haha very funny however

2602
01:48:39,669 --> 01:48:37,920
however what i want to say is this if

2603
01:48:42,950 --> 01:48:39,679
you're going through the trauma

2604
01:48:46,149 --> 01:48:42,960
of getting abducted it's highly unlikely

2605
01:48:49,270 --> 01:48:46,159
you have a csi lab in your back pocket

2606
01:48:49,910 --> 01:48:49,280
and you're going to imagine at that

2607
01:48:52,229 --> 01:48:49,920
second

2608
01:48:53,990 --> 01:48:52,239
thinking to take something however some

2609
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:54,000
people have the wherewithal

2610
01:48:57,750 --> 01:48:56,159
to do that i'll give you an example

2611
01:48:59,430 --> 01:48:57,760
there this really happened

2612
01:49:01,270 --> 01:48:59,440
and i think i actually had my co-host

2613
01:49:02,870 --> 01:49:01,280
listen part of this show

2614
01:49:05,189 --> 01:49:02,880
where there was like a disaster of a

2615
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:05,199
certain um

2616
01:49:09,030 --> 01:49:08,000
airplane where they actually sort of

2617
01:49:12,629 --> 01:49:09,040
kind of crash

2618
01:49:14,470 --> 01:49:12,639
landed but but before they were going to

2619
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:14,480
make their landing in an uncertain

2620
01:49:16,870 --> 01:49:15,360
manner

2621
01:49:18,390 --> 01:49:16,880
one of the people had the wherewithal to

2622
01:49:20,149 --> 01:49:18,400
start taking pictures

2623
01:49:22,070 --> 01:49:20,159
because they truly felt if they were

2624
01:49:22,390 --> 01:49:22,080
going to die they wanted someone to have

2625
01:49:25,750 --> 01:49:22,400
some

2626
01:49:27,430 --> 01:49:25,760
kind of evidence to look at now now that

2627
01:49:29,189 --> 01:49:27,440
is the kind of person

2628
01:49:31,350 --> 01:49:29,199
that would need to be abducted if there

2629
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:31,360
was a need to be abducted

2630
01:49:35,910 --> 01:49:34,400
but they're very rare and it's just you

2631
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:35,920
know what do you think don't you think

2632
01:49:39,669 --> 01:49:37,040
it'd be difficult

2633
01:49:40,229 --> 01:49:39,679
if you're being going through the trauma

2634
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:40,239
of being

2635
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:43,360
sucked into some unknown ship at

2636
01:49:47,430 --> 01:49:45,760
with these strange beings around you are

2637
01:49:50,070 --> 01:49:47,440
you really gonna remember

2638
01:49:51,030 --> 01:49:50,080
not only that but these beings could

2639
01:49:53,589 --> 01:49:51,040
potentially be

2640
01:49:54,870 --> 01:49:53,599
hundreds of millions millions of times

2641
01:49:56,790 --> 01:49:54,880
smarter than you

2642
01:49:59,750 --> 01:49:56,800
don't you think they would know ahead of

2643
01:50:02,790 --> 01:49:59,760
time that you might do that

2644
01:50:04,310 --> 01:50:02,800
maybe seriously like

2645
01:50:06,229 --> 01:50:04,320
you know if they're that far in their

2646
01:50:08,229 --> 01:50:06,239
technology you would think they'd have a

2647
01:50:09,830 --> 01:50:08,239
contingency plan for that

2648
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:09,840
and if you did put something in your

2649
01:50:12,550 --> 01:50:11,520
pocket pretty sure they have the

2650
01:50:14,790 --> 01:50:12,560
technology to

2651
01:50:16,470 --> 01:50:14,800
take it back out they'd wag the finger

2652
01:50:18,470 --> 01:50:16,480
at you they'd wrap their little finger

2653
01:50:20,790 --> 01:50:18,480
at you don't do that

2654
01:50:21,589 --> 01:50:20,800
i wish i could talk to mishu kaku and

2655
01:50:24,790 --> 01:50:21,599
let him know

2656
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:24,800
hey that's a stupid idea like

2657
01:50:31,189 --> 01:50:28,639
these these beings are potentially

2658
01:50:31,830 --> 01:50:31,199
infinitely smarter than we are at our iq

2659
01:50:33,589 --> 01:50:31,840
level

2660
01:50:36,229 --> 01:50:33,599
you really think they're that dumb to

2661
01:50:39,189 --> 01:50:36,239
let people steal something

2662
01:50:39,750 --> 01:50:39,199
come on well what they could do is uh

2663
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:39,760
leave out

2664
01:50:42,629 --> 01:50:41,360
uh some things that they picked up off

2665
01:50:43,910 --> 01:50:42,639
earth and just kind of leave them out

2666
01:50:45,830 --> 01:50:43,920
for somebody to take and

2667
01:50:48,149 --> 01:50:45,840
somebody will just take a spoon that you

2668
01:50:50,390 --> 01:50:48,159
know got stolen from

2669
01:50:51,910 --> 01:50:50,400
somebody's kitchen and they'll say hey i

2670
01:50:53,990 --> 01:50:51,920
got this from an alien and it's really

2671
01:50:54,470 --> 01:50:54,000
just a spoon from some earthlings

2672
01:50:57,189 --> 01:50:54,480
kitchen

2673
01:50:57,990 --> 01:50:57,199
that could be too that could be but on

2674
01:51:00,070 --> 01:50:58,000
that

2675
01:51:01,270 --> 01:51:00,080
thank you everybody we really appreciate

2676
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:01,280
your listening to our

2677
01:51:04,870 --> 01:51:03,920
uh podcast tonight and thank you frank

2678
01:51:07,430 --> 01:51:04,880
we had a great show

2679
01:51:08,629 --> 01:51:07,440
really enjoyed jan thanks chant and uh

2680
01:51:10,149 --> 01:51:08,639
great job uh

2681
01:51:12,229 --> 01:51:10,159
all throughout the weekend really we saw

2682
01:51:15,510 --> 01:51:12,239
a little bit of it uh here today but

2683
01:51:17,669 --> 01:51:15,520
you'll uh you'll have some uh

2684
01:51:19,109 --> 01:51:17,679
some time before we uh come on again to

2685
01:51:21,109 --> 01:51:19,119
put together what you picked up at the

2686
01:51:24,470 --> 01:51:21,119
scu so uh that'll be good stuff

2687
01:51:26,950 --> 01:51:24,480
and there will be more news uh we're you

2688
01:51:28,470 --> 01:51:26,960
you literally have to uh keep your eyes

2689
01:51:30,709 --> 01:51:28,480
open every day and

2690
01:51:32,229 --> 01:51:30,719
as soon as another uh two or three or

2691
01:51:33,990 --> 01:51:32,239
four stories come up

2692
01:51:36,149 --> 01:51:34,000
we'll be ready uh for another news

2693
01:51:37,430 --> 01:51:36,159
analysis show so uh thanks again to jan

2694
01:51:40,629 --> 01:51:37,440
harzin thanks chant

2695
01:51:42,470 --> 01:51:40,639
and uh thanks for listening everybody uh

2696
01:51:44,950 --> 01:51:42,480
general rich oh my goodness so sorry

2697
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:44,960
about that yes sorry

2698
01:51:48,629 --> 01:51:47,679
sorry janet aldridge uh yeah jan aldrich

2699
01:51:50,950 --> 01:51:48,639
uh thanks again

2700
01:51:51,669 --> 01:51:50,960
and uh have a great uh great week